Episode 186: Live Cruise Recording: Apostates

- On going slow.  I’ve de-joined all the facebook groups like the VIP lounge because it makes it difficult for me to disentangle at a pace that works for me.  I end up mentally getting ahead of myself. 

- On promiscuous disclosure.  I have a really hard time feeling like I have to answer any question asked of me.  I like being an open person.  But I’ve made progress here by choosing not to answer every question.  I’m usually open with the reasons for not answering people’s questions.  I liked the comment that suggested the phrase “I’m choosing not to attend right now.” 

- On raising your kids outside the church (or even if one spouse is out and one is in and the kids still go).  I don’t think we have to yield the territory to the church.  At all.  Pick what values are important to you, and make an effort to instill them.  The website ‘deciding to be better’ has an interesting approach.  The typical holidays get a value and you celebrate those values during those holidays.  Other opportunities arise to speak to those values using the calendar.  I’ve been contemplating, for example, getting a special notebook for each of my kids, and on Sunday, sitting down privately with each of them and kind of making a journal with them.  What was your favorite part of the week?  If you could go back in time and change one thing that you did, what would you change?  (sort of a repentance thing… kind of)  Jot it down.  Turn the page and talk about how this next week is a fresh start.  At the end of the year they can go through it as they make their new years resolutions.  —- I’m just saying, no need to yield the positives to any other organization.  Its your family.  You’re the one who wants good things for your family. 

Just wanted to say thanks for your podcast. Just when I’m really starting to get down, and really disappointed in my family’s response to my wife and I leaving, you all remind me that there are reliable people out there. 

Thanks to all for the podcast.

At one point some very salient comments were made about how post-Mormon functions were voluntary (non-obligatory) and how this led to friendships that were more authentic than many experienced in church.

I agree.  And a life without authentic relationships is hardly worth living.

But I think it is worth mentioning how obligatory associations can bring a person into contact with people he or she might otherwise have little to do with but, once engaged, can lead to life- and attitude-changing relationships.

Just as important, there are people who live on the margins for whom any contact, obligatory or otherwise, helps alleviate their suffering and loneliness.  I’m thinking of those who are physically unattractive, socially awkward (e.g high functioning autistics), ashamed of their circumstances, struggling with emotional problems, disabilities, elderly shut-ins, etc.  

It seems to me churches do serve these people, obligatory as such relationships might be.  Personally I wish our society did not lean so heavily on religions to meet these needs.  But it does seem that religion, at its best, provides strong motivation for this service, which, as I said, can enrich the lives of both parties.

Knowing people in such circumstances seems reason enough to tread softly about one’s own apostasy – though I understand as well that it is often the apostate who is suffering from marginalization.  This is, obviously, religion not at its best.

I didn’t sense that the panelists would disagree with this.  Indeed, I think I can infer this from most of what was said.  I just wanted to add this.

JT

This was amazing!  I left the church about five years ago, but haven’t ever really talked to other ex-mormons until recently.  It is sooooooo nice to know that I am not alone in my feelings and experiences with leaving.  Thank you all for sharing so openly!

*delurking alert*

Thanks for this podcast. It’s so reassuring to hear that there’s light and richness on the other side of a faith crisis. Right now, all I see is blackness. So thanks to all of you for being open, compassionate, and hilarious.

Sounds like an ex mormon testimony meeting.  Obviously, there is a lot of pain there.  Much of that pain is a result of ignoring or suppressing what you know deep down is the real truth about Mormonism for years.  I’m a firm believer that most Mormons know deep down that Mormonism is a delusion but they delude themselves and let others delude them. That is a big reason why they don’t want to hear the truth.  When they finally face the truth, they have alot of pain involved in breaking the addiction.