Episode 88: Saturday’s Warrior for Dummies

Saturday's Warrior

John, Zilpha and Glenn are joined by Travis to get to the bottom of Saturday’s Warrior

Episode 88

76 comments on “Episode 88: Saturday’s Warrior for Dummies”

  1. Anonymous Reply

    I loved Saturday’s Warrior as a kid. I even auditioned for the play once, nearly getting the role of either Jimmy or the wicked gang-leader. This was for a production in Las Vegas, and they were toying with the idea of upgrading the “Summer of fair weather” song to a rap or something more modern. They had me try it in a couple different styles. My fave was of course the original, sort of grainy rock-n-roll voice.

    What my wife & I *planned* on being our last child was also named Emili – for the same reason as Zilpha’s little sister. Or course, one failed vasectomy later, she got pregnant with our current last child. (I then had a second vasectomy which supposedly worked.)

    I sing these songs (and the My Turn On Earth songs – which I personally like more) all the time. I even translated some of them to Norwegian – or rather, I started translating hoping to put on a Norwegian production until I found out how much work it would be to get licensing, funding and all that shizzle.

    I gotta say I really liked the guest, Travis. He was smart and well informed. It’s a real pity there wasn’t more time because I would have loved hearing more from him.

    One big question I have had is who exactly Doug Stewart was. I heard rumors that he wasn’t a Mormon, that he never joined the church, that he just wrote this as a fun project. I highly doubt any of those rumors but it would be interesting to know more about him and what he’s doing now.

    • Anonymous Reply

      Wow! On first listen I restarted the episode before the aftermath so I missed Glenn’s bonus song. Glenn, that was great! And you sounded great!
      Zilpha, you have an awesome voice too. I loved hearing you sing. I have a fantasy that you, John (or Glenn), Melissa, Bridget (or another girl) and I play John, Michael, Barbara, Pam & Gloria in a mini version of My Turn On Earth at the next ME reunion. :p

      • Glenn Reply

        I could do My Turn on Earth in my sleep Richard. Any part you want to assign me, I am so in! (and so is Melissa — as long as you also throw in some leg warmer roller skates and Xanadu for good measure).

        Glad you liked my take on Zero Population. It wasn’t quite as good as your essay, but thanks man!

    • Peg Stewart Bird Reply

      Doug Stewart is my dad. The greatest dad ever. Very loyal and active true believing Mormon, Stake Patriarch. He is also very thoughtful and intelligent, witty and kind.

  2. Rich Rasmussen Reply

    Loved your closing song Glenn, mostly your scatting instrumental breakdowns :). I am amazed at how much I remember of this play, how funny and interesting to hear it discussed with a new perspective. Thanks to everyone, and Travis, you did a great job!

  3. Brian Reply

    Just so you know, my favorite part of the podcast was Glen’s song at the end. It was truly inspiring! As always, that was an awesome episode.

  4. Megan Reply

    I didn’t realize that Mormons are sort of weird because they believe in a pre-existence (with personality and intelligence) until I was taking a lit class in college studying Wordsworth – Not in entire forgetfulness, / And not in utter nakedness, / But trailing clouds of glory do we come / From God, who is our home – and another student said “but, he didn’t BELIEVE that, did he? That’s ridiculous!” and the prof agreed. Rocked my little Mormon world right to the core.

    I was just having a discussion about how much Saturday’s Warrior influenced my belief system – to the point that I would never have believed anything it said was considered non-doctrinal; I thought it WAS doctrine, every last drop of it.

    Of course, I also will forever have the idea that we all wore jumpsuits in the pre-existence because that was what the costume director for our stake production came up with. I was convinced that the baptismal jumpsuits were based on actual pre-existence fashion. (Yes, I was aware that technically we didn’t have bodies, but somehow the idea of nekkid spirits was not one I considered)

  5. Tearose26 Reply

    LOVED this episode! I first saw Saturday Warrior in seminary –although our teacher pointed out some of the doctrinal faux pas (like the fact that the kids are kids in the pre-existence) — and I was so in love with the Todd story — My patriarchal blessing actually says that I would marry “someone I knew in the pre-existence” and that “the Lord will bring you together” so I was just waiting for my Todd to show up.

    I wonder how many Emilys were born in 1975-76 in the Mormon corridor.

    My Turn on Earth actually had more influence on me. We had the soundtrack when I was growing up and I think all my understanding of the war in heaven comes from that show. Do you think the fact that I always really got into singing Satan’s parts (and then felt really guilty about getting so into them) presaged my eventual departure from the fold?

    • Anonymous Reply

      I accidentally “liked” your comment while signed in under John’s account. I’m sure he liked it, too. But I just wanted to make it clear who “liked” what you said. I also dreamed of finding my “Todd”. Well, if there was a pre-earth life, and I was in love with someone there I’m sure it would have been John. : )

  6. Mike Reply

    I’m kinda keen to watch this again, I think it’s been 20+ years since I last saw it… May even have been on Beta-max.

    Glenn’s performance at the end was pure gold, and…

    Kelsi Osborn played the part of Alice and was one of the three sisters who make up SheDAISY.

    Great podcast guys!

  7. Polly Anna Reply

    I loved Glenn’s song. The best part was the line about not needing a shlong to have the priesthood. That was too funny.

  8. missinglink Reply

    I laughed, I cried, I thoroughly enjoyed it! Man, what a blast from the past. A few years ago, I picked-up the video of SW and “Starchild” was thrown in for free. It was so over-the-top and I wondered how anything could be worse. Then I went to the Polynesian Cultural Center in Hawaii and saw “Ha! Breath of Life”. Need I say more? ūüôā

  9. Fred Reply

    As a NeverMo, for me the biggest take away on this podcast was to see just how heavily folk doctrine and theology influences Mormon Culture and the worldview of individual members.

    Correct me if I’m wrong but it sounds like folk doctrine and theology is actually more pervasive and deeply rooted than anything that might flow down from “official” sources.

    Is this a correct perception?

    • Tearose26 Reply

      I think Mormon’s are not uniquely influenced by folk doctrines — but they certainly are an important part of the way LDS people think about themselves in (but not of) the world. I’d love to conduct a huge survey of members to get an idea of what people in the church really believe, as opposed to what they are supposed to believe (or accused of believing).

      • Glenn Reply

        I agree. I’ve done some mini-surveys over the years on things like signs of the times or mormon humor just with people within my immediate sphere of influence, but it would be interesting to conduct a wider survey and see all the pot luck dishes served up in the mormon buffet and which ones are the most popular. My guess is that most of them would be hybrid folk/official doctrines (aka the philosophies of men, mingled with scripture) with a stronger emphasis on the folk than the “official.” But that is pretty much the nature of most vernacular religion in my estimation.

      • Fred Reply

        Tearose, I would LOVE to see the results of that poll! And I think that I’m not alone.

        I’m reminded, of the infamous Barna Poll where 70% of self-identifying Christians answered “Yes” to the question “Is ‘God helps those who help themselves’ in the Bible?” and “No” to “Is ‘A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush’ in the Bible?”

        So obviously Glenn is right when it comes to vernacular religion.

        Glenn, have you ever considered becoming the “Barna of Mormonism”? I think you may have found your new calling!

  10. Chino_Blanco Reply

    All apologies, but I was hoping for a link to a torrent download for ‘Saturday’s Warrior: Millenium [sic] Edition’ … otherwise, this podcast was good fun.

    • Chino_Blanco Reply

      Gah, I just ordered the DVD from Deseret Book b/c of this post. Looking forward to returning and reporting the reaction from my nevermo wife and kids.

  11. Patrick Reply

    About ten years ago, there was a big production of Saturday’s Warrior that was produced by members with no “official” involvement by the Church. It played at a local high school but we rehearsed at the stake center.

    Let me say…it was awesome! I played Kessler and my wife played Julie. Let me say again…it was awesome! We had good crowds too.

    Without mentioning names, but the director of the show claimed that she and Douglas Stewart were in a class together at BYU and that he stole the idea for Saturday’s Warrior from her…scandal, I know.

    One of the things that I miss most from my young innocent years is that belief that I was “special”, saved for the last days because I was so valiant. I still love the music from the show…I always thought that Julie was a floozy, but that Pam…there’s a eternal companion you could take to the temple. ūüėČ

    • Anonymous Reply

      Dude! Can you tell me anything about Doug Stewart? I really want to put to rest the rumors that he was not a member. And how old was he when he wrote this?

      • nabedahi Reply

        Doug Stewart has been and is an active Mormon today. He wrote the play while attending BYU, but didn’t produce the musical with Lex DeAzavedo until he was in his early-mid thirties. FYI he had nothing to do with the video production we all know so well.

        I grew up with the music, the dream and his vision. I’m his 4th child. He’s an amazing, creative man.

        • Anonymous Reply

          No way! Are you for real? If you truly are his 4th child, could you please tell us a little more about the man? What is he up to now? (work, family, etc)

          I grew up listening to the original soundtrack, NOT the film version – which I didn’t like nearly as much. I watched the play several times. The movie, I watched it once or twice and never liked it so much. However, I do think Todd had a slightly better voice perhaps than in the original, and Julie sounded much younger (and more aloof, as John points out) – more appropriate for her age. Otherwise, (and in spite of that) I really prefer the original music. The movie even cut out one of the coolest songs from the play – the part where the stage goes dark and all the “street” actors wore fancy lights in their eyes to make them look possessed! That totally freaked me out the first time I saw it in the theater. I can’t remember the name of the song offhand but if you’re Doug’s kid you certainly know which one I mean.

          Please share more experiences with us! ūüôā

          • Glenn

            Voices calling me from everywhere, run over here, run over there…

            It’s called “voices” — and yes, nabedahi, please share this with your dad and see if he is willing to produce a new version with an updated Zero Population. ūüėČ

          • nabedahi

            Dad’s still got projects going. Since SW, he’s raised 8 children, opened Tuacahn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuacahn), started the Mormon Arts Foundation (gathers all sorts of LDS artists once or twice yearly to come together and share ideas/projects), and written new Mormon musicals, including lyricist for Utah! the musical.

            My childhood was rich with his ideas and music. He could come up with something creative and fun on a whim, and brought us kids to laughter at a moments notice. I am always brought to tears over “Pullin’ Together” and “Line Upon Line”, they remind me so much of him and his philosophy.

  12. Staceyjb Reply

    dang it. I’ve been singing “saturday’s warrior” all day at work. THANKS! Thanks for this fun podcast. It’s fun to reminisce.

  13. Joseph Reply

    I remember this musical (which I encountered in the form of the film). Its light-hearted approach to Mormonism (doctrine and culture) is a welcome departure from rants pro and anti that take everything a little too seriously.

  14. Mike Tannehill Reply

    This was a great episode, very fun to listen to and very little negativity or criticism. Just fans reflecting on a big part of their cultural heritage.

    I recall hearing about Saturdays Warrior growing up, but I have never seen it or listened to it. It seems very kitch to me, but listening to this makes me want to go pick up a copy.

  15. Andrea Reply

    I was in the production of “Saturday’s Warrior” mentioned by commenter Patrick. I played one of the “bad” kids. I was told that I needed to rein in my shimmy because it was too provocative. = )

  16. Jer Reply

    Great podcast! I need to get my hands on a copy of My Turn on Earth. I’ve never seen it, but now I want to. Thanks!

  17. Carson N Reply

    This was a great podcast. Travis, you had some really good insights. I never watched Saturday’s Warrior all the way through because I always thought it was too cheesy and dumb, but now it’s on the top of my Netflix queue because what you all said about it is very true: as cheesy as it may be, it represents well the idyllic charm that Mormonism had for me, and it is also a pretty good look at Mormon culture.

  18. Oz Reply

    My aunt gave my mom a copy of the album. As a little kid, this album cover would scare the shiz out of me. I could not look at it or I would lose my mind in fear. The ghostly face in the background reminded me of Mike Myers from the movie Halloween. I’m freaking out looking at it right now!!!!!!

    Oh, and, ah, good job on the podcast!!!!

  19. Gail F. Bartholomew Reply

    Love the new version at the end.

    I find it telling how they misrepresent the other side. I grow up really believing that people actually used the population explosion to justify being pro choice. Has anyone ever really heard this. Just as today Oaks is telling us that the gay community is trying to get gay marriages preformed in the temple and they are all anti monogamy.

  20. fh451 Reply

    Great podcast! It certainly brought back a lot of memories for me. I never saw the video production as a teenager – just a travelling live show that came to our town along the Mormon corridor. And of course the soundtrack was one of the mainstays of keeping me sane on my mission.

    One thing I thought of during the podcast in regards to “false doctrines” (btw, my dad HATED SW, StarChild, etc because of what he considered all the false doctrines :-)) was the idea of having your “soul mate” waiting for you from the pre-existence and Spencer W Kimball’s statements along the lines of “any worthy young man and young woman should be able to be married and be happy … yada yada.” I know in the DAMU we castigate that statement for all the quicky LDS marriages that may have resulted among people that really had nothing else in common, but I now wonder if that was at least partially in reaction to the Saturday’s Warrior idea of a “soul mate.” If so, maybe I have to give Spencer a little credit for trying to get some people to not be so picky looking for _the one_. Of course taking it to the other extreme resulted in a lot of unhappy people, too.

  21. John Hamer Reply

    Loved this podcast — great discussion by the panel and special guest. Our stake did a production when I was 9 or 10 and my sister (chanson from the blogs) who was 8 played Emily. My dad made a lot of the sets. The original album was one of the few records in our house and as a consequence I know all the lyrics to all the songs to this day.

    One thing I think Saturday’s Warrior highlights is absurdity of the “eternal perspective” of conservativism. The fact that SW was already severely dated by the time the video version was created (the hippie counter culture warriors had to be recast as preppy popular kids) — and the fact that the anti-zero-population anti-abortion-rights message is so embarrassing — shows just how naive it is to imagine contemporary conservativism (of any era) represents an eternal perspective.

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  23. Johnboy Reply

    One of the good things about Mormonism is that once you have done the study to debunk it, you have pretty much done all of the work to debunk theism as well. ¬†In fact, the only reason I stayed with Mormonism so long is that all of the other sects and religions didn’t seem to have anything more persuasive. ¬†In order to have any interest for me, it would have to be demoted to a charity/social club, some amalgam of the Peace Corps/Scouting/Kiwanis Club, etc. ¬†The only interest the bible would have for me is the background to understand historical and literary references in literature.

  24. Bryce Reply

    My changes would be primarily structural.

    1) I would identify the leading structure of the church as the “church council” comprising the first presidency, the relief society presidency, the quorum of the 12 and the 12 member relief society board (which I would rename).¬† I would abolish the concepts of “seniority” and unanimity¬†in the church council.¬† I would eliminate a separate relief society meeting during general conference and alternate Sat evening sessions every six months between a priesthood meeting¬†and a relief society meeting.¬† A a man would not be the last speaker at the relief society meeting and a woman would speak at every priesthood session.¬† Presentations at general conference would be given by equal numbers of men and women.¬†I would give incredibly boring and mundane talks, and I would not speak at every general conference.

    2) I would profesionalize the clergy with the hopes of encouraging a diversity of acceptable mormon doctrines and practices. (This would¬†take several years).¬† I would eliminate the seminary and institute prgrams, double the size of the units where possible¬†and uncouple the units from geography (you can attend whatever ward you want).¬† I would pay bishops and open a divinity school at BYU and in every MTC in the world (these would be satellite campuses of the divinity schools).¬† I would encourage the bishops to get a degree.¬† I would eliminate the quorum of the 12 as trustees of BYU in favor of another group of trustees who are primarily academics.¬† I would encourage different schools of thought to be developed in the divinity school.¬† I would maintain all of the other lay positions (bishop’s counselors, sunday school, etc.).¬† I would fold the COB’s correlation employees into the divinity school, and I would have a dozen acceptable (and differen; perhaps even marginally inconsistent) sunday school manuals/etc.¬† I would make it clear that the church council, and not the school was empowered to provide official church positions and publicly emphasize that the purpose of the divinity school is to train bishops in meeting the unique needs of their flock.

    • Fred W. Anson Reply

      We’re on a roll – another fantastic list. ¬†I like it, in fact I love it!¬†
      (please excuse my gushing)

      And, of course, I’m interpreting “professionalize the clergy” as meaning that the LdS Church FINALLY and publicly acknowledging that LdS clergy receive compensation for their work as well as paying them as you suggest – and, more importantly, acknowledging there’s nothing wrong with salaried clergy. ¬†

      Of course it’s not currently salaried (which is where the “unpaid clergy” rhetoric has always come from) rather, It comes in the form of stipends, free scholarships for their children to BYU, cars from the church car pool, church housing, free meals at COB, etc., etc., etc.¬†
      (all these things are cover in Daimon Smith’s book, “The Book of Mammon”; see¬†http://mormonstories.org/?p=980¬†; or¬†http://www.amazon.com/Book-Mammon-About-Corporation-Mormons/dp/1451553706/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1311351874&sr=8-1¬†)¬†

      As Mormon Studies Scholars have pointed out for years, salaried compensation for a professional clergy is codified in LdS Scripture: 

      12. And if ye desire the glories of the kingdom, appoint ye my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and uphold him before me by the prayer of faith.

      13. And again, I say unto you, that if ye desire the mysteries of the kingdom, provide for him food and raiment, and whatsoever thing he needeth to accomplish the work wherewith I have commanded him.
      (Doctrine and Covenants 43:12-13)

      71. And the elders or high priests who are appointed to assist the bishop as counselors inall things, are to have their families supported out of the property which is consecreated to the bishop, for the good of the poor, and for other purposes, as before mentioned;

      72. Or they are to receive a just remuneration for all their services, either a stewardship or otherwise, as may be thought best or decided by the counselors and bishop.

      73. And the bishop, also, shall receive his support, or a just remuneration for all his services in the church.
      (Doctrine and Covenants, Sec. 42:71-73)

      23. And it shall be for a house for bording, a house that strangers may come from afar to lodge therein; therefore let it be a good house, worthy of all acceptations. . . .

      56 And now I say unto you, as pertaining to my boarding house which I have commanded you to build for the boarding of strangers, let it be built unto my name, and let my name be named upon it, and let my servant Joseph and his house have place therein, from generation to generation.
      (Doctrine and Covenants 124: 23, 56)

      And I hope that none of my mad ramblings distract in any way from your thoughtful and paradigm changing list – it’s quite good, very practical, and evolutionary rather than revolutionary as mine is.

    • Fred W. Anson Reply

      We’re on a roll – another fantastic list. ¬†I like it, in fact I love it!¬†
      (please excuse my gushing)

      And, of course, I’m interpreting “professionalize the clergy” as meaning that the LdS Church FINALLY and publicly acknowledging that LdS clergy receive compensation for their work as well as paying them as you suggest – and, more importantly, acknowledging there’s nothing wrong with salaried clergy. ¬†

      Of course it’s not currently salaried (which is where the “unpaid clergy” rhetoric has always come from) rather, It comes in the form of stipends, free scholarships for their children to BYU, cars from the church car pool, church housing, free meals at COB, etc., etc., etc.¬†
      (all these things are cover in Daimon Smith’s book, “The Book of Mammon”; see¬†http://mormonstories.org/?p=980¬†; or¬†http://www.amazon.com/Book-Mammon-About-Corporation-Mormons/dp/1451553706/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1311351874&sr=8-1¬†)¬†

      As Mormon Studies Scholars have pointed out for years, salaried compensation for a professional clergy is codified in LdS Scripture: 

      12. And if ye desire the glories of the kingdom, appoint ye my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and uphold him before me by the prayer of faith.

      13. And again, I say unto you, that if ye desire the mysteries of the kingdom, provide for him food and raiment, and whatsoever thing he needeth to accomplish the work wherewith I have commanded him.
      (Doctrine and Covenants 43:12-13)

      71. And the elders or high priests who are appointed to assist the bishop as counselors inall things, are to have their families supported out of the property which is consecreated to the bishop, for the good of the poor, and for other purposes, as before mentioned;

      72. Or they are to receive a just remuneration for all their services, either a stewardship or otherwise, as may be thought best or decided by the counselors and bishop.

      73. And the bishop, also, shall receive his support, or a just remuneration for all his services in the church.
      (Doctrine and Covenants, Sec. 42:71-73)

      23. And it shall be for a house for bording, a house that strangers may come from afar to lodge therein; therefore let it be a good house, worthy of all acceptations. . . .

      56 And now I say unto you, as pertaining to my boarding house which I have commanded you to build for the boarding of strangers, let it be built unto my name, and let my name be named upon it, and let my servant Joseph and his house have place therein, from generation to generation.
      (Doctrine and Covenants 124: 23, 56)

      And I hope that none of my mad ramblings distract in any way from your thoughtful and paradigm changing list – it’s quite good, very practical, and evolutionary rather than revolutionary as mine is.

    • Fred W. Anson Reply

      We’re on a roll – another fantastic list. ¬†I like it, in fact I love it!¬†
      (please excuse my gushing)

      And, of course, I’m interpreting “professionalize the clergy” as meaning that the LdS Church FINALLY and publicly acknowledging that LdS clergy receive compensation for their work as well as paying them as you suggest – and, more importantly, acknowledging there’s nothing wrong with salaried clergy. ¬†

      Of course it’s not currently salaried (which is where the “unpaid clergy” rhetoric has always come from) rather, It comes in the form of stipends, free scholarships for their children to BYU, cars from the church car pool, church housing, free meals at COB, etc., etc., etc.¬†
      (all these things are cover in Daimon Smith’s book, “The Book of Mammon”; see¬†http://mormonstories.org/?p=980¬†; or¬†http://www.amazon.com/Book-Mammon-About-Corporation-Mormons/dp/1451553706/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1311351874&sr=8-1¬†)¬†

      As Mormon Studies Scholars have pointed out for years, salaried compensation for a professional clergy is codified in LdS Scripture: 

      12. And if ye desire the glories of the kingdom, appoint ye my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and uphold him before me by the prayer of faith.

      13. And again, I say unto you, that if ye desire the mysteries of the kingdom, provide for him food and raiment, and whatsoever thing he needeth to accomplish the work wherewith I have commanded him.
      (Doctrine and Covenants 43:12-13)

      71. And the elders or high priests who are appointed to assist the bishop as counselors inall things, are to have their families supported out of the property which is consecreated to the bishop, for the good of the poor, and for other purposes, as before mentioned;

      72. Or they are to receive a just remuneration for all their services, either a stewardship or otherwise, as may be thought best or decided by the counselors and bishop.

      73. And the bishop, also, shall receive his support, or a just remuneration for all his services in the church.
      (Doctrine and Covenants, Sec. 42:71-73)

      23. And it shall be for a house for bording, a house that strangers may come from afar to lodge therein; therefore let it be a good house, worthy of all acceptations. . . .

      56 And now I say unto you, as pertaining to my boarding house which I have commanded you to build for the boarding of strangers, let it be built unto my name, and let my name be named upon it, and let my servant Joseph and his house have place therein, from generation to generation.
      (Doctrine and Covenants 124: 23, 56)

      And I hope that none of my mad ramblings distract in any way from your thoughtful and paradigm changing list – it’s quite good, very practical, and evolutionary rather than revolutionary as mine is.

      • Bryce Reply

        No mad ramblings at all! ¬†You hit the nail on the head from my perspective: there is nothing wrong with a salaried clergy and, in fact, there are probably some benefits. ¬†Also, astute observation regarding the non-salary compensation and the shout out to Damon Smith’s book.¬†By the way, thanks for the blog post – fascinating suggestions, and I like hearing the different perspectives in the comments.

  25. Kyle Harris Reply

    Good post Fred. Obviously you are coming at this from the point of view of a bible believing Christian. I personally see no reason why the bible should be given any more respect than the Book of Mormon. My idea of how I would like to see the church change has more to do with simply acceptance of alternate interpretations of beliefs, rather than denouncing those beliefs outright.  I also propose a lot of practical changes. 
    http://outsidethehat.blogspot.com/2011/05/how-church-can-keep-me-in.html

    • Fred W. Anson Reply

      Oh my, I absolutely love your list!  Fantastic!

      100% agreement on every point Kyle.

      The slight adjustment that I would suggest would be a slow merging of the orthodox and liberal groups so they begin to “leaven” each other. If you listen to Heather’s new podcast “Episode 147: American Grace with David Campbell” he touches on how this was worked in creating a devout, diverse, yet tolerant religious culture in America.

      And, yes, I’m just “thick” enough to believe that it could work in the LdS Church as well.

    • Fred W. Anson Reply

      Oh my, I absolutely love your list!  Fantastic!

      100% agreement on every point Kyle.

      The slight adjustment that I would suggest would be a slow merging of the orthodox and liberal groups so they begin to “leaven” each other. If you listen to Heather’s new podcast “Episode 147: American Grace with David Campbell” he touches on how this was worked in creating a devout, diverse, yet tolerant religious culture in America.

      And, yes, I’m just “thick” enough to believe that it could work in the LdS Church as well.

  26. Guest Reply

    Is it really necessary to say “Mope” (Mormon Pope)? That phrase suggests an underlying vitriol that clouds any legitimate question you might be asking. It seems that you are either trying to shock, evoke anger, Poke fun, or have a sense of humor that I am not sensitive to. Would anything be lost by asking instead “what would you change if you were the Prophet?”

    • Fred W. Anson Reply

      YOU WROTE
      “Is it really necessary to say “Mope” (Mormon Pope)?”

      MY RESPONSE
      No, it wasn’t necessary but it was fun, funny, and playful. ¬†And the Colbert piece (please use the provided link – click on the words “Mormon Pope ‚Äď a la Stephen Colbert” is hilarious).¬†

      I’m sorry that you find humor vitriolic, shocking, and angering. ¬†However, I might suggest that such thin skinned responses from Mormons is one of the reasons why they’re so distrusted and disliked by the public – if you haven’t listened to Heather’s new podcast, “http://mormonexpression.com/2011/07/21/episode-147-american-grace-with-david-campbell/Episode 147: American Grace with¬†David Campbell”, he touches on this near the end of the interview.¬†

      As for being “evocative” I plead guilt. ¬†Clearly the intention of the piece is to provoke thought and garner discussion – and it worked.¬†

      Now, that said,¬†¬†“What would you change if you were the Prophet?” – let’s see your list.

      • Guest Reply

        “What would you change if you were the Prophet?”

        Whatever God told me to change ūüėČ

  27. John Cox Reply

    I really like number 10, I think that’d be wonderful if such an aid organization were to come into being.
    Number 6 is already being done by the church, espescially in the last few years with the “raising of the bar” Young men are repeatedly told that they should only serve if they truly want to. Now I won’t deny it is taking some church membership to catch up espescially in dense Mormon communities like Spanish Fork Utah, but I think we’re getting there.
    I don’t think much would change with 1 and 2.
    However, the rest of your ideas I fell would only serve to transform the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints into an unrecognizable and small branch of Pentecostal Protestantism. Number 4 and 5 would take care of any unique doctrines we had. And of course any that remained would do so only dubiously.
    Taking away the emphasis on personal revelation via 3.4 would take away the special spiritual connection that we have with the Lord.
    You would not only lose all of the church welfare farms, canneries, printing presses, and a good deal of the meeting houses, you would also lose most or all of the Temples some communities may strive to keep their beautiful landmarks, but having no practical use they could put it to, except maybe a Library or museum they would be leveled for the most part and replaced with housing developments and shopping malls.
    In essennce if you were “Mope” you would take away the beauty, the doctrine, the authority, the uniqueness, and the spirituallity of the Mormon faith. Though I know you would do it with all of the best, albiet misguided, intentions.

  28. Gregory Boucher Reply

    I joined the church a good deal because of the inspiration that this video gave me.

  29. Pingback: Saturday’s Warrior | Trudging Toward the Telestial Kingdom

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