Episode 222: Tolerance

8 comments on “Episode 222: Tolerance”

  1. Alf O'Mega Reply

    Okay, one thing that I won’t tolerate any longer: John needs to take a close look at the word “theologian”. It’s four syllables: thee – uh – LOW – jun. He’s dropping the third syllable and saying “theolgian” (thee – OLE – jun). Which must not be tolerated, not in any civilized culture anyway. We have boundaries to keep, after all.

  2. Gail Bartholomew Reply

    On the subject of my personal level of tolerance. I think I am far less tolerant. I worked very hard for a long time to tolerate Mormon thought. When I was leaving I spent a lot of time looking at one of Packers earlier quotes on tolerance. He said something to the effect of we are not required to tolerate those things that cause pain. I decided that I agree with that and the church and the thinking of many members cause a hell of a lot of pain and I decided that I refuse to tolorate that shit any more.

  3. W D Reply

    Thanks for correcting that Zilpha, the whole becoming ‘less tolerant’ thing was very confusing.

    Love “Sunny” too, hilarious episode.

  4. Christopher Wiren Reply

    I think about it like this: Imagine an egg… Everything outside the egg is Intolerance/”Do not accept”/Black; The egg-white represents Tolerance/”Put up with”/Gray-zone; The egg-yellow represents Acceptance/”OK”/White. (Acceptance is included in tolerance.) I could tolerate a bad cold, but maybe not accept it. The problem with many Mormons is that they miss the egg-white part.

  5. Christopher Allman Reply

    I’m only about 10 minutes in and loving it so far. When I saw the topic was ‘Tolerance’ I had a suspicion that John, being the contrarian that he is would be taking the approach that he is (not to mention it being consistent with his previous statements). And I am happy that John delivered! Although I thoroughly disagree with your point-(and am eagerly formulating a rebuttal in my head. Hopefully I still am motivated to post once the episode is over)-of-view on this particular matter, I truly appreciate having someone stir the pot and come to Packers defense. Because ideas like tolerance are complex, nuanced issues that most people, members and ex-es alike tend to see in fairly unsophisticated ways, so I appreciate John bringing in the intellectual sophistication (although i strongly disagree (although I think to a certain extent it is merely a problem of definitions) Because I’m hella tolerant!)

  6. Christopher Allman Reply

    John,
    I found your theory on Packer very interesting. I too have noticed his fixation on Sex as I have Oaks fixation on power (and some others).
    Of course we may never know (but hopefully his journals get out after gives up the ghost (from being crucified), but I personally think the reason may actually be the opposite.
    He is like the stridently homophobic preacher that is secretly gay. I don’t think Packer is gay, but I think he may have an above average sex drive(or below average willpower against it).
    Methinks he doth protest too much.
    We know he is an ‘artist’ and I can say from being in a graduate art program that artists generally have a sex drive far above average(or at least less willpower to control).
    What I imagine is happening is that he feels SO guilty whenever he masturbates (or whatever) and beats himself up so much about it that he is often feeling down on himself and lacking the spirit. Since we all tend to extrapolate others feelings from from our own experience, from his perspective homosexuals, with their decadent lifestyle must be in the worst type of hell and it is literally destroying their hearts (as he knows from personal experience (rubbing ones out!)
    Being someone that kind of is Asexual (I’ve described myself as ‘bi-sexual’ but instead of straight and gay I am straight and Asexual. And by that I mean, I go through long stretches of time (3 or4 months) where I will have no sex drive (and equally long stretches with a strong sex drive…it may very well be connected to other things and not a ‘true’ ‘bi-sexual Asexuality (if such a thing even exists), but it is effectually the same so whatevs.) and I know that during my ‘asexual times’, sex just isn’t on my brain at all, so it would not be something I would think to talk about. Whereas during sexual times (and DEFINITELY AS A MORMON who was ashamed of having rubbed one out that morning, sex and it’s evilness was on my mind constantly.
    Of course it is totally possible he is Asexual, but I personally find the extra-sexual explanation more satisfying. (and that some sort of similar issues with control are going on with Oaks.)

  7. Christopher Allman Reply

    I know I have already gone to Commentsllvania today , but here is just one more!
    John: I have finally come around to your way of thinking about the Church in regards to feeling that it should be destroyed. This came after attending sacrament meeting one week ago, for the first time in years, here in Chicago in a very liberal ward. It was full of bearded men, artists, mathematicians and minorities.
    We even had the great fortune of arriving on a fast sunday so we got to hear testimonies.
    My brother was in town and we went together, while having an early 420 celebration.
    Seeing people more like myself in the grips of Mormonism caused me to see it as the mental virus that it is.
    All the men seemed beaten down. (with a smart phone, can even the GA’s avoid looking at naked people online? I doubt it.) My brother and I both remarked to each other afterwards how all the men’s shoulders were hunched and their eyes sunk in. As if they had been carrying a heavy burden for too long. Even the bishopric. Everyone except the ward missionaries. (Who boasted of having a ‘Simple Testimony’ and how that was all one needed, which I noticed raised an eyebrow from each member of the bishopric, making me think they had nuanced Nom testimonies)
    And then hearing the testimonies! They were all the same! About how difficult their lives were and how grateful they were to have Mormonism to help ease their burdens.
    But the burdens all boiled down to one thing=Mormonism. They were burdened with moral guilt about not being a good person, about the challenges of having different beliefs in a secular world, about the challenge of following all the rules, about the challenge of feeling good enough etc etc. All of these issues would be solved if they got rid of Mormonism, instead, through a viscous viscious cycle( I myself remember being in) they are using Mormonism to cure the wounds of Mormonism!
    It is for these reason I have come to believe the world would be . Even if some people really love it, I now believe the harm it does is too great, these people need to be let free from the virus.

  8. exmotogo Reply

    You know, I think people don’t understand what asexuality really is. John and everybody are talking on this podcast about how asexuals can’t understand why sexual people act the way they do, and that is just not really true.

    Asexuality is simply not being sexually attracted to people of either sex. While there are some asexuals that have no sex drive whatsoever, and some that are completely aromantic, many of us do have sex drives, and many of us are romantically attracted to people. So while I personally don’t *really* understand this seemingly uncontrollable urge that sexual people have to have sex with other people all the time, I definitely understand that sex feels good (my extreme guilt that came from my inability to stop masturbating was what drove me away from the church, originally) and I understand that people want to be physically and emotionally close to people that they care about (because I do too). I can see the appeal of having an intimate sexual experience with someone I love, even if I’m not turned on by the sight of their body.

    I’m honestly inclined to think that Packer is just hypersexual and guilty about it — sexual needs are not beyond the comprehension of asexual individuals.

    anyway I wanted to say that (because there’s been similar talk about asexuality on here in the past, I’ve noticed), and the more you know, etc etc…. back to the podcast… looking forward to listening to this one 😀

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