Episode 30: The Dream Mine

Relief Mine

In August of 1894, Bishop John Koyle had a dream that there was an Ancient Nephite Gold Reserve full of gold, records and treasure that would help save the church in the last days. The Dream Mine, or sometimes known as the Relief Mine, is located just above Salem, UT in Utah County. In this episode we interview De Lynn “Doc” Hansen, who firmly believes in the Mine and has spent the majority of his life involved with the Dream Mine.

links:
http://www.dream-mine.info
http://www.reliefmine.com/

Episode 30

69 comments on “Episode 30: The Dream Mine”

  1. John Dehlin Reply

    You guys found your own Anne Wilde, so to speak….a true believer in something totally non-normal (in the traditional sense of the word).

    Amazing.

    Congrats, fellas. Great, great find.

  2. John Dehlin Reply

    You guys found your own Anne Wilde, so to speak….a true believer in something totally non-normal (in the traditional sense of the word).

    Amazing.

    Congrats, fellas. Great, great find.

  3. jw Reply

    why does the line in Billy Madison keep coming to my mind, “we are all dumber for having heard that.”

    very interesting.

  4. jw Reply

    why does the line in Billy Madison keep coming to my mind, “we are all dumber for having heard that.”

    very interesting.

  5. Aaron Reply

    There isn’t enough anti-psychotic medication in Utah county to fix the Dream Minerites … Coo-Coo… Coo-Coo…

  6. Aaron Reply

    There isn’t enough anti-psychotic medication in Utah county to fix the Dream Minerites … Coo-Coo… Coo-Coo…

  7. Mike Reed Reply

    Enjoyed the show, guys! But listening to this podcast would have been a helluva lot better, had I been huddled round a camp-fire, roasting some marshmellows.

  8. Mike Reed Reply

    Enjoyed the show, guys! But listening to this podcast would have been a helluva lot better, had I been huddled round a camp-fire, roasting some marshmellows.

  9. Phil K. Reply

    Interesting podcast.

    I wonder if Joseph Smith’s stories of buried treasure sounded like Doc’s stories…?

    • DocHansen Reply

      The difference is that I’ve seen gold that came out of at the Relief Mine. It’s there. Doc

  10. Phil K. Reply

    Interesting podcast.

    I wonder if Joseph Smith’s stories of buried treasure sounded like Doc’s stories…?

  11. Kery Reply

    Geology shows no natural gold in this area. Therefore, that can’t be found. However, if you want to be a loon, you have the right. Please also look for the sword of Laban. It should be behind your sofa hiding with Jesus.

    • DocHansen Reply

      You’ve read too much Talmage. The gold is there, I’ve seen gold out of the mine. Ore samples taken at the bottom of the winze showed over 20,000 oz/ton.

  12. Kery Reply

    Geology shows no natural gold in this area. Therefore, that can’t be found. However, if you want to be a loon, you have the right. Please also look for the sword of Laban. It should be behind your sofa hiding with Jesus.

  13. Scottie Reply

    It appears that Bishop Koyle had a lot of prophecies that came true. Did he make any prophecies that did not come true?

    • DocHansen Reply

      All of his prophecies and prophetic dreams were fulfilled except for the last few currently coming to pass dealing with the US economy being propped up and then collapsing overnite which is the key to the mine opening operations.

  14. Scottie Reply

    It appears that Bishop Koyle had a lot of prophecies that came true. Did he make any prophecies that did not come true?

  15. Eric Comstock Reply

    Well I think after listening to this podcast my testimony has come back 🙂 … Great interview. I love this kind of stuff.

  16. Eric Comstock Reply

    Well I think after listening to this podcast my testimony has come back 🙂 … Great interview. I love this kind of stuff.

  17. Eric Comstock Reply

    One other thought… One thing I really like about people like Doc is that they are so passionate. And even if you don’t believe what they believe there is something sort of inspirational about their passion.

  18. Eric Comstock Reply

    One other thought… One thing I really like about people like Doc is that they are so passionate. And even if you don’t believe what they believe there is something sort of inspirational about their passion.

  19. Brock Sampson Reply

    I think that Doc spun a good yarn, precisely because he is a very sincere believer. I love a good legend, even though I don’t believe a word of it. It reminds me of Goonies, and I’m very tempted to go rooting around Water Canyon.

    More to the point (and no offense is meant Doc), but I think that your interview clearly demonstrates the magical thinking inherent in religion in general, and Mormonism in particular. Given that he represents a more extreme form of magical faith, but it really isn’t that far of a stretch from regular Mormonism, with its visions, angels, etc to this.

    It goes to show how far alot of anecdotal evidence (and not a shred of physical evidence) can go.

    • DocHansen Reply

      Overall it’s a great story. I love telling it. But, more than just a good story, I could tell you about the proofs that it’s more than a good story.

      • numbersnumbers Reply

        Just out of curiosity, and having a bit of expertise in the matter, I wonder what “infrared equipment” they used to confirm their gold findings.  When you’re talking about finding gold ore and stuff that is buried under lots of earth and rock, you’re going to need more than just a helicopter to get some of that kind of equipment in, and even then, its sketchy if it will be sensitive enough.  Any ideas?

        • DocHansen Reply

          DOC:
          Hmm. I use to remember the name of the machine and the university that invented it. I eeven looked it up on the internet and I found it. They (Hugh Nibley and Harry Davis of H. Davis and Sons in Salem) rented a small airplane to scan the mountains.

  20. Brock Sampson Reply

    I think that Doc spun a good yarn, precisely because he is a very sincere believer. I love a good legend, even though I don’t believe a word of it. It reminds me of Goonies, and I’m very tempted to go rooting around Water Canyon.

    More to the point (and no offense is meant Doc), but I think that your interview clearly demonstrates the magical thinking inherent in religion in general, and Mormonism in particular. Given that he represents a more extreme form of magical faith, but it really isn’t that far of a stretch from regular Mormonism, with its visions, angels, etc to this.

    It goes to show how far alot of anecdotal evidence (and not a shred of physical evidence) can go.

  21. brit-exmo Reply

    really interesting podcast, enjoyed it. looking forward to the 3 nephites one now!

    i do wonder about those guys, i know the lds church is a crock, so then who are these guys that keep popping up now and then? are they paid by the lds church to go round being mysterious etc?

  22. brit-exmo Reply

    really interesting podcast, enjoyed it. looking forward to the 3 nephites one now!

    i do wonder about those guys, i know the lds church is a crock, so then who are these guys that keep popping up now and then? are they paid by the lds church to go round being mysterious etc?

  23. Randall Reply

    Scottie,
    This whole podcast was about a prophecy the good bishop got wrong. He claimed that it was a Nephite mine that held records unless I remembered it wrong. I was listening while pushing my kid around at Disneyland. Noisy background. Anyway, they couldn’t find anything even with the heavenly help of the 3 Nephites! If that doesn’t work, nothing will. Not even apologists are saying that the Nephites ventured up to North America. DNA has forced them to reconfigure Nephite geography and I don’t think Spanish Fork is part of it.

  24. Randall Reply

    Scottie,
    This whole podcast was about a prophecy the good bishop got wrong. He claimed that it was a Nephite mine that held records unless I remembered it wrong. I was listening while pushing my kid around at Disneyland. Noisy background. Anyway, they couldn’t find anything even with the heavenly help of the 3 Nephites! If that doesn’t work, nothing will. Not even apologists are saying that the Nephites ventured up to North America. DNA has forced them to reconfigure Nephite geography and I don’t think Spanish Fork is part of it.

  25. John Larsen Reply

    Randall:

    The believers in the mine believe that the gold will not be found until just before the end. The fact that they have never found gold fits perfectly into their belief pattern.

  26. John Larsen Reply

    Randall:

    The believers in the mine believe that the gold will not be found until just before the end. The fact that they have never found gold fits perfectly into their belief pattern.

  27. Clay Painter Reply

    Even though I thought the lore was fascinating and appropriate for Mormon Expression (a place for Mormonism in all its kookiness), I would have personally enjoyed more challenging questions from the panel. Doc told a great story, but should he be able to just tell his story without ANY critical examination. Maybe so, but I would have liked more questions and discussion.

    It was definitely magical, and I had never been exposed to the Dream Mine…

  28. Clay Painter Reply

    Even though I thought the lore was fascinating and appropriate for Mormon Expression (a place for Mormonism in all its kookiness), I would have personally enjoyed more challenging questions from the panel. Doc told a great story, but should he be able to just tell his story without ANY critical examination. Maybe so, but I would have liked more questions and discussion.

    It was definitely magical, and I had never been exposed to the Dream Mine…

  29. Randall Reply

    John,

    You are right. I kind of tuned out during that part. How does DNA fit into their belief system? It just seems funny to me that these guys really believe that the Lord would send the 3 Nephites to work on a mine not destined to be successful until the second coming. Wouldn’t these guys have something more important to do? Like opening missionary corridors or not existing? It is hard enough to swallow the restoration story, but to actually believe the restoration was true, the church became too political and corrupted and fell into apostasy, but will be restored to order and this Spanish Fork mine is key to it all, it just boggles the rational mind. It’s like, man, the Lord’s projects never succeed. First the original church fails shortly after the apostles were all killed. Then his next church fails. The Lord had better luck with the Hebrews.

  30. Randall Reply

    John,

    You are right. I kind of tuned out during that part. How does DNA fit into their belief system? It just seems funny to me that these guys really believe that the Lord would send the 3 Nephites to work on a mine not destined to be successful until the second coming. Wouldn’t these guys have something more important to do? Like opening missionary corridors or not existing? It is hard enough to swallow the restoration story, but to actually believe the restoration was true, the church became too political and corrupted and fell into apostasy, but will be restored to order and this Spanish Fork mine is key to it all, it just boggles the rational mind. It’s like, man, the Lord’s projects never succeed. First the original church fails shortly after the apostles were all killed. Then his next church fails. The Lord had better luck with the Hebrews.

  31. Swearing Elder Reply

    There’s crazy. There’s batshit crazy. And then there’s this.

    Holy cow. I can’t believe I grew up in Utah and never once heard of this… Thanks for doing this episode. Fascinating.

  32. Swearing Elder Reply

    There’s crazy. There’s batshit crazy. And then there’s this.

    Holy cow. I can’t believe I grew up in Utah and never once heard of this… Thanks for doing this episode. Fascinating.

  33. Aaron Reply

    One thing that wasn’t discussed in the podcast that would have been interesting was the mention of the Dream Mine in Krakauer’s “Under the Banner of Heaven”. If I remember right, in the book he talks about the Lafferty brothers having interest in the mine and its prophecies.

  34. Aaron Reply

    One thing that wasn’t discussed in the podcast that would have been interesting was the mention of the Dream Mine in Krakauer’s “Under the Banner of Heaven”. If I remember right, in the book he talks about the Lafferty brothers having interest in the mine and its prophecies.

  35. Perry L. Porter Reply

    I think that Brother Hansen really downplayed participation of Fundamentalist/Polygamists in the dream mine, past and present.

    Many fundamentalist are dirt poor and do not have discretionary funds to buy stocks in the Dream Mine, but ultra conservative, end of days Mormons are a bigger pool often with more money.

    I have quite a few fundamentalist friends and have been around them and I sort of remember hearing them talk about the Bishop having more than one wife all secret.

    It would have been highly unusual for someone that had not participated in the higher principal to have their seconds anointing.

    I have a lot more questions than I have answers.

    Back in the day it was much easier to have a face to face with a GA, than today. Koyle had an in with a GA i.e. JGKimball

    Plus he was a Bishop that was having fantastic claims at a time with the church still thought the 2nd coming was around the bend and when the church needed money.

    Something is just fishy…. on one side or both…. If he had revelations that could be verified, why would the GA’s know about it was well or just want to call him in and tell him to stop or tell him to inform them what he knew.

    Conspiracy plots abound and spring forth as easily as printed stock certificates, as a treasure that moves right before the strike of the pick.

    Here are some “revelations” and “prophecies” that are so much closer to our time that should have had multiple witness verification.

    But all we have is a story that this or that happened just like predicted.

    Why are we left in the position of being rude and having to question someone’s honesty about the sequence of events?

    If any of his prophecies about specifics of what would happen and the specific date it would happened were just to be printed in a major newspaper the day before, we would not have to be put in the position of wondering if Koyle was a con man.

    Doc’s story seems to check out as the first post to his egroup is just after midnight on the morning of September 11th.

    WELCOME MY FRIENDS TO THE DREAM MINE EGROUP
    HOWDY…… Discussing the dream mine, Bishop Koyle, his prophecies, his stories, the stories of many of the dreamers or supporters of the mine as they were… Doc Hansen @… Sep 11, 2001 12:17 am

    Which if all 911 planes had been successful and it had collapsed the government and the relief mine did save main body of the church and ushered in the 2nd coming, then WOW, that would have been prophetic.

    But the 2nd coming like the dream mine is always around the next corner and has been that way for over 150 years for the Mormons and 2000 years for other Christians.

    Bottom line is where is the critical thinking and where am I going to get $300 buck in this economy?

    Perry L. Porter

  36. Perry L. Porter Reply

    I think that Brother Hansen really downplayed participation of Fundamentalist/Polygamists in the dream mine, past and present.

    Many fundamentalist are dirt poor and do not have discretionary funds to buy stocks in the Dream Mine, but ultra conservative, end of days Mormons are a bigger pool often with more money.

    I have quite a few fundamentalist friends and have been around them and I sort of remember hearing them talk about the Bishop having more than one wife all secret.

    It would have been highly unusual for someone that had not participated in the higher principal to have their seconds anointing.

    I have a lot more questions than I have answers.

    Back in the day it was much easier to have a face to face with a GA, than today. Koyle had an in with a GA i.e. JGKimball

    Plus he was a Bishop that was having fantastic claims at a time with the church still thought the 2nd coming was around the bend and when the church needed money.

    Something is just fishy…. on one side or both…. If he had revelations that could be verified, why would the GA’s know about it was well or just want to call him in and tell him to stop or tell him to inform them what he knew.

    Conspiracy plots abound and spring forth as easily as printed stock certificates, as a treasure that moves right before the strike of the pick.

    Here are some “revelations” and “prophecies” that are so much closer to our time that should have had multiple witness verification.

    But all we have is a story that this or that happened just like predicted.

    Why are we left in the position of being rude and having to question someone’s honesty about the sequence of events?

    If any of his prophecies about specifics of what would happen and the specific date it would happened were just to be printed in a major newspaper the day before, we would not have to be put in the position of wondering if Koyle was a con man.

    Doc’s story seems to check out as the first post to his egroup is just after midnight on the morning of September 11th.

    WELCOME MY FRIENDS TO THE DREAM MINE EGROUP
    HOWDY…… Discussing the dream mine, Bishop Koyle, his prophecies, his stories, the stories of many of the dreamers or supporters of the mine as they were… Doc Hansen @… Sep 11, 2001 12:17 am

    Which if all 911 planes had been successful and it had collapsed the government and the relief mine did save main body of the church and ushered in the 2nd coming, then WOW, that would have been prophetic.

    But the 2nd coming like the dream mine is always around the next corner and has been that way for over 150 years for the Mormons and 2000 years for other Christians.

    Bottom line is where is the critical thinking and where am I going to get $300 buck in this economy?

    Perry L. Porter

  37. Mister IT Reply

    Anyone who wants a practical demonstration of what Mormon Epistemology is and how it’s applied in Mormon Culture need only listen to this podcast.

    Great job, as usual.

    And, personally, I think that Lyndon Lamborn’s critical analysis of Mormon Epistemology is the best that I’ve seen to date:

    “…the “burning in the bosom” is a NOT a reliable way to determine truth, at least not for me. Perhaps for some people it is an accurate indicator, but I venture to say that some people think it is and it really isn’t. I believe that in my case, based on my experiences, it clearly is NOT a reliable way to determine truth. Can it be used in a positive way? Of course it can. Do many people rely on this method and find themselves believing in error? I think so.

    I will go on to speculate that this ‘formula’ for determining truth could be proven unreliable beyond a reasonable doubt. Take 100 people who have lived in a vacuum and have no knowledge of the book “Where the Red Fern Grows” who are also humble and teachable. Instruct them that to know truth, they should read and pray and watch for that “burning in the bosom”, a ‘tingly’ feeling, or other sign from the Holy Ghost that what they are reading is true, which feeling may vary widely from individual to individual. Then give them a week to read and pray. I would venture to say that a high percentage would determine that the book “Where the Red Fern Grows” is truth in this experiment.

    I believe that what is REALLY happening is that we get a unique feeling when a book, situation, lesson, movie, music, or statement touches us on a spiritual level and strikes a chord deep down in our soul. This is something we should seek after and experience as often as possible, since our life is enriched each time. However, at least with me, it is not a reliable indicator of truth, only a reliable indicator of a soul-awakening experience. While it pains me to say this, I believe that those who say that this method of discerning truth is complete and has to be fail-safe SOLELY BECAUSE it is described in modern scripture are caught in a no-exit track of circular reasoning or self-deceptive paradox. Trusting emotions over reason has a somewhat dubious track record in history; take for example the Third Reich:

    ‘Reason can treacherously deceive a man, but emotion is always sure and never leaves him.’
    – Adolph Hitler

    ‘Do not seek Adolph Hitler with your brains, you will find him with your hearts.’
    – Rudolf Hess

    So, is there a fail-safe, reliable method for discerning truth, or are we forever guessing? Well some things, such as in math and science, can be proven beyond any rational or reasonable doubt.”
    http://www.mormonthink.com/lamborn.htm

  38. Mister IT Reply

    Anyone who wants a practical demonstration of what Mormon Epistemology is and how it’s applied in Mormon Culture need only listen to this podcast.

    Great job, as usual.

    And, personally, I think that Lyndon Lamborn’s critical analysis of Mormon Epistemology is the best that I’ve seen to date:

    “…the “burning in the bosom” is a NOT a reliable way to determine truth, at least not for me. Perhaps for some people it is an accurate indicator, but I venture to say that some people think it is and it really isn’t. I believe that in my case, based on my experiences, it clearly is NOT a reliable way to determine truth. Can it be used in a positive way? Of course it can. Do many people rely on this method and find themselves believing in error? I think so.

    I will go on to speculate that this ‘formula’ for determining truth could be proven unreliable beyond a reasonable doubt. Take 100 people who have lived in a vacuum and have no knowledge of the book “Where the Red Fern Grows” who are also humble and teachable. Instruct them that to know truth, they should read and pray and watch for that “burning in the bosom”, a ‘tingly’ feeling, or other sign from the Holy Ghost that what they are reading is true, which feeling may vary widely from individual to individual. Then give them a week to read and pray. I would venture to say that a high percentage would determine that the book “Where the Red Fern Grows” is truth in this experiment.

    I believe that what is REALLY happening is that we get a unique feeling when a book, situation, lesson, movie, music, or statement touches us on a spiritual level and strikes a chord deep down in our soul. This is something we should seek after and experience as often as possible, since our life is enriched each time. However, at least with me, it is not a reliable indicator of truth, only a reliable indicator of a soul-awakening experience. While it pains me to say this, I believe that those who say that this method of discerning truth is complete and has to be fail-safe SOLELY BECAUSE it is described in modern scripture are caught in a no-exit track of circular reasoning or self-deceptive paradox. Trusting emotions over reason has a somewhat dubious track record in history; take for example the Third Reich:

    ‘Reason can treacherously deceive a man, but emotion is always sure and never leaves him.’
    – Adolph Hitler

    ‘Do not seek Adolph Hitler with your brains, you will find him with your hearts.’
    – Rudolf Hess

    So, is there a fail-safe, reliable method for discerning truth, or are we forever guessing? Well some things, such as in math and science, can be proven beyond any rational or reasonable doubt.”
    http://www.mormonthink.com/lamborn.htm

  39. Matt Jorgenson Reply

    A little late to the game, but this episode has the vibe of a Coast to Coast AM episode, which is a good thing in my opinion.  A bizarre topic like this is always a really exciting thing to learn about.

  40. Teresa Reply

    I’m trying to find out information on the”Relief Mine Company” that my Great Grandfather had shares in .  We believe it was tied to the Mormon Church if anyone could help me I would greatly appreciate it
    Teresa Noel

  41. SacKIngsFan Reply

    Even though I am an apostate critic of the church, I must say this guy had me feeling sorry for the church! I mean where did you up pick this guy up at? He plays the victim card but he doesn’t play it very well. I spent more years In the church than I care to admit, and I’m betting that his account of his experiences are just a teeny weeny bit exaggerated.

    • Heather_ME Reply

      I think it is a little presumptuous to claim that someone’s experiences are exaggerated. First, everyone’s life is a matter of their own perceptions. Secondly, I think plenty of people have experienced callous disregard from those around them (in reference to his problems with his knee and his illness on his mission). Just because YOU haven’t had similar experiences doesn’t mean Kent is exaggerating or lying. Further, Kent admitted that he had decent bishops and leaders as a youth. I think that shows that he has at least a little bit of objectivity. Finally, I think the fact that you don’t show the least bit of tact (“where did you pick this guy up at?”) in your criticisms of the interview kinda proves Kent’s point.

  42. BrianMel Reply

    Kent’s perception of his experience with coming of age through Mormonism is not unique. I think he represents a significant amount of those who have felt emotionally dependent on the environment of the church youth culture, but simultaneously felt an awareness that it was not the best fit for them and were unsure of what else they could transition to.

    I felt a similar conflict of loyalty towards my peer group and my certainty that my personal growth laid entirely beyond my current network of familiarity. I feel this is particularly common if a person’s disaffection occurs in the years shortly after a mission while single.

    Focusing on whether Kent’s recollection of his mistreatment is exaggerated is missing the point of his disaffection narrative. He bravely gave the listeners an honest mental image of the surprises (as he personally experienced them) while transitioning from adolescence to adulthood.

    His story is about personal growth through startled expectations. He chose to rise to the challenge of becoming a free thinking, independent adult instead of a life of dishonesty about his convictions.

    Well done Kent. Thanks for sharing your story.

    • jennwestfall Reply

      I agree with you BrianMel…

      I used to work in the public school system, so we had a lot of training on bullying and harassment. Harassment is defined by how it is received, not by how it is given. If I am offended by a joke or a comment or an action, then I am being harassed even if it was not your intention to offend me. That is why it is so important to watch your thoughts and actions in public and with people you do not know and trust. Kent felt harassed, therefore he was.

  43. nomoroll Reply

    I have to agree with some of the comments below. Thought about posting yesterday but didn’t want to come off as too negative (like some of the commentors are being accused of now. However, I know….piling on now is not cool). Heather, I enjoy your interviews and your approach but I got the feeling that even you were a bit hesitant throughout the interview like “what have I gotten myself into”. I feel like you should have known better than to put this up on the site. Maybe you wanted to be genuine and not censor which interviews make it to ‘primetime’ but this wasn’t your best work. It only works if the interviewees have credibility and personally I feel like this was a complete waste of my time. Future listeners of this episode, you’ve been warned.
    Sorry to be a downer. Otherwise, keep up the good work.

  44. Tony Bartley Reply

    Kent, were you on the BBC This World: The Mormon Candidate? There was a gentlemen on there who sounded a lot like you and worked in the records department of the church. He was with a group of other ex-Mormons being interviewed. Just curious.

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