In August of 1894, Bishop John Koyle had a dream that there was an Ancient Nephite Gold Reserve full of gold, records and treasure that would help save the church in the last days. The Dream Mine, or sometimes known as the Relief Mine, is located just above Salem, UT in Utah County. In this episode we interview De Lynn “Doc” Hansen, who firmly believes in the Mine and has spent the majority of his life involved with the Dream Mine.
links:
http://www.dream-mine.info
http://www.reliefmine.com/
You guys found your own Anne Wilde, so to speak….a true believer in something totally non-normal (in the traditional sense of the word).
Amazing.
Congrats, fellas. Great, great find.
Doc went to chiropractic school…..that explains everything.
why does the line in Billy Madison keep coming to my mind, “we are all dumber for having heard that.”
very interesting.
There isn’t enough anti-psychotic medication in Utah county to fix the Dream Minerites … Coo-Coo… Coo-Coo…
Enjoyed the show, guys! But listening to this podcast would have been a helluva lot better, had I been huddled round a camp-fire, roasting some marshmellows.
Interesting podcast.
I wonder if Joseph Smith’s stories of buried treasure sounded like Doc’s stories…?
Geology shows no natural gold in this area. Therefore, that can’t be found. However, if you want to be a loon, you have the right. Please also look for the sword of Laban. It should be behind your sofa hiding with Jesus.
It appears that Bishop Koyle had a lot of prophecies that came true. Did he make any prophecies that did not come true?
Well I think after listening to this podcast my testimony has come back
… Great interview. I love this kind of stuff.
One other thought… One thing I really like about people like Doc is that they are so passionate. And even if you don’t believe what they believe there is something sort of inspirational about their passion.
I think that Doc spun a good yarn, precisely because he is a very sincere believer. I love a good legend, even though I don’t believe a word of it. It reminds me of Goonies, and I’m very tempted to go rooting around Water Canyon.
More to the point (and no offense is meant Doc), but I think that your interview clearly demonstrates the magical thinking inherent in religion in general, and Mormonism in particular. Given that he represents a more extreme form of magical faith, but it really isn’t that far of a stretch from regular Mormonism, with its visions, angels, etc to this.
It goes to show how far alot of anecdotal evidence (and not a shred of physical evidence) can go.
really interesting podcast, enjoyed it. looking forward to the 3 nephites one now!
i do wonder about those guys, i know the lds church is a crock, so then who are these guys that keep popping up now and then? are they paid by the lds church to go round being mysterious etc?
Scottie,
This whole podcast was about a prophecy the good bishop got wrong. He claimed that it was a Nephite mine that held records unless I remembered it wrong. I was listening while pushing my kid around at Disneyland. Noisy background. Anyway, they couldn’t find anything even with the heavenly help of the 3 Nephites! If that doesn’t work, nothing will. Not even apologists are saying that the Nephites ventured up to North America. DNA has forced them to reconfigure Nephite geography and I don’t think Spanish Fork is part of it.
Randall:
The believers in the mine believe that the gold will not be found until just before the end. The fact that they have never found gold fits perfectly into their belief pattern.
Even though I thought the lore was fascinating and appropriate for Mormon Expression (a place for Mormonism in all its kookiness), I would have personally enjoyed more challenging questions from the panel. Doc told a great story, but should he be able to just tell his story without ANY critical examination. Maybe so, but I would have liked more questions and discussion.
It was definitely magical, and I had never been exposed to the Dream Mine…
John,
You are right. I kind of tuned out during that part. How does DNA fit into their belief system? It just seems funny to me that these guys really believe that the Lord would send the 3 Nephites to work on a mine not destined to be successful until the second coming. Wouldn’t these guys have something more important to do? Like opening missionary corridors or not existing? It is hard enough to swallow the restoration story, but to actually believe the restoration was true, the church became too political and corrupted and fell into apostasy, but will be restored to order and this Spanish Fork mine is key to it all, it just boggles the rational mind. It’s like, man, the Lord’s projects never succeed. First the original church fails shortly after the apostles were all killed. Then his next church fails. The Lord had better luck with the Hebrews.
There’s crazy. There’s batshit crazy. And then there’s this.
Holy cow. I can’t believe I grew up in Utah and never once heard of this… Thanks for doing this episode. Fascinating.
One thing that wasn’t discussed in the podcast that would have been interesting was the mention of the Dream Mine in Krakauer’s “Under the Banner of Heaven”. If I remember right, in the book he talks about the Lafferty brothers having interest in the mine and its prophecies.
I think that Brother Hansen really downplayed participation of Fundamentalist/Polygamists in the dream mine, past and present.
Many fundamentalist are dirt poor and do not have discretionary funds to buy stocks in the Dream Mine, but ultra conservative, end of days Mormons are a bigger pool often with more money.
I have quite a few fundamentalist friends and have been around them and I sort of remember hearing them talk about the Bishop having more than one wife all secret.
It would have been highly unusual for someone that had not participated in the higher principal to have their seconds anointing.
I have a lot more questions than I have answers.
Back in the day it was much easier to have a face to face with a GA, than today. Koyle had an in with a GA i.e. JGKimball
Plus he was a Bishop that was having fantastic claims at a time with the church still thought the 2nd coming was around the bend and when the church needed money.
Something is just fishy…. on one side or both…. If he had revelations that could be verified, why would the GA’s know about it was well or just want to call him in and tell him to stop or tell him to inform them what he knew.
Conspiracy plots abound and spring forth as easily as printed stock certificates, as a treasure that moves right before the strike of the pick.
Here are some “revelations” and “prophecies” that are so much closer to our time that should have had multiple witness verification.
But all we have is a story that this or that happened just like predicted.
Why are we left in the position of being rude and having to question someone’s honesty about the sequence of events?
If any of his prophecies about specifics of what would happen and the specific date it would happened were just to be printed in a major newspaper the day before, we would not have to be put in the position of wondering if Koyle was a con man.
Doc’s story seems to check out as the first post to his egroup is just after midnight on the morning of September 11th.
WELCOME MY FRIENDS TO THE DREAM MINE EGROUP
HOWDY…… Discussing the dream mine, Bishop Koyle, his prophecies, his stories, the stories of many of the dreamers or supporters of the mine as they were… Doc Hansen @… Sep 11, 2001 12:17 am
Which if all 911 planes had been successful and it had collapsed the government and the relief mine did save main body of the church and ushered in the 2nd coming, then WOW, that would have been prophetic.
But the 2nd coming like the dream mine is always around the next corner and has been that way for over 150 years for the Mormons and 2000 years for other Christians.
Bottom line is where is the critical thinking and where am I going to get $300 buck in this economy?
Perry L. Porter
Anyone who wants a practical demonstration of what Mormon Epistemology is and how it’s applied in Mormon Culture need only listen to this podcast.
Great job, as usual.
And, personally, I think that Lyndon Lamborn’s critical analysis of Mormon Epistemology is the best that I’ve seen to date:
“…the “burning in the bosom” is a NOT a reliable way to determine truth, at least not for me. Perhaps for some people it is an accurate indicator, but I venture to say that some people think it is and it really isn’t. I believe that in my case, based on my experiences, it clearly is NOT a reliable way to determine truth. Can it be used in a positive way? Of course it can. Do many people rely on this method and find themselves believing in error? I think so.
I will go on to speculate that this ‘formula’ for determining truth could be proven unreliable beyond a reasonable doubt. Take 100 people who have lived in a vacuum and have no knowledge of the book “Where the Red Fern Grows” who are also humble and teachable. Instruct them that to know truth, they should read and pray and watch for that “burning in the bosom”, a ‘tingly’ feeling, or other sign from the Holy Ghost that what they are reading is true, which feeling may vary widely from individual to individual. Then give them a week to read and pray. I would venture to say that a high percentage would determine that the book “Where the Red Fern Grows” is truth in this experiment.
I believe that what is REALLY happening is that we get a unique feeling when a book, situation, lesson, movie, music, or statement touches us on a spiritual level and strikes a chord deep down in our soul. This is something we should seek after and experience as often as possible, since our life is enriched each time. However, at least with me, it is not a reliable indicator of truth, only a reliable indicator of a soul-awakening experience. While it pains me to say this, I believe that those who say that this method of discerning truth is complete and has to be fail-safe SOLELY BECAUSE it is described in modern scripture are caught in a no-exit track of circular reasoning or self-deceptive paradox. Trusting emotions over reason has a somewhat dubious track record in history; take for example the Third Reich:
‘Reason can treacherously deceive a man, but emotion is always sure and never leaves him.’
- Adolph Hitler
‘Do not seek Adolph Hitler with your brains, you will find him with your hearts.’
- Rudolf Hess
So, is there a fail-safe, reliable method for discerning truth, or are we forever guessing? Well some things, such as in math and science, can be proven beyond any rational or reasonable doubt.”
http://www.mormonthink.com/lamborn.htm