Episode 228: How the Church Takes Things From You and Sells Them Back

16 comments on “Episode 228: How the Church Takes Things From You and Sells Them Back”

    • ControlZee Reply

      If our existence is about relationships then I’d rather be in hell with people who accept me as I am than be in heaven with people who will offer love only for your compliance.

      Or I’m taking a sarcastic remark too seriously.

        • ControlZee Reply

          Oh, ok. Yeah, don’t believe for a second that there’s a hell.

          Q: What kind of sadistic, monstrous villain would create a creature whose nature is “an enemy to god”; wipe his memory clean at birth; send out the lone saving message through 0.001% of the world population for a tiny, 200-year window of human existence; and then torture him FOR ETERNITY for not following the correct message correctly?

          A: Elohim, apparently. Or Yahweh. The bible god.

          This is a moral realization I came to: There is no crime that a mortal can commit that would merit eternal punishment. Eternity. Ten trillion years isn’t even the beginning of it. That kind of punishment is more evil than any mortal crime can ever be.

          This scheme would be like keeping your dog in a perpetual state of agony because he barked at a squirrel. “Well, I told him not to!,” said the sadistic coward.

  1. reddirtmrmn Reply

    This podcast goes well, in my opinion, with some thoughts I’ve had lately. The idea of being like children is a strong theme in Mormonism and general Christianity. It’s a teaching of Jesus and it calls us to be humble, or so we interpret. I find myself realizing that as a child, I loved everyone. I wanted everyone to come to my birthday party, I didn’t think about who was or was not righteous, worthy, etc. I was just a friend. I had to be taught that my two non-Mormon best friends could not attend my temple wedding because they are not worthy. I had to be taught that homosexual marriage was ‘bad’. If no one ever taught me these things, my default would be to simply be nice and follow the golden rule. It really is very intuitive and is visible when observing children. My seven year old still can make friends with anyone at the play ground. I say all of this to point out the irony; we are taught to be like children by the church, and the church makes us into bigots. I’m a lucky guy though. My two best friends forgave me and we now hang out like nothing had happened. It’s funny how the heathens can teach you more about kindness than a lofty church.

  2. broofturker Reply

    “Insidious” implies that this is all planned. I think you all did a fantastic job of laying a case for the problem and the irony of what goes on in the Church, but-and this could totally be the result of spending my whole life indoctrinated- what makes you confident that the brethren of the past and now are consciously trying to do this. Do you think they are consciously trying to control? Maybe they think it is all true and they just want to make sure that the greatest number fall in line. I don’t know. it does seem insidious, it is just hard to believe that they would do that on purpose. I lean towards the group think and absolutes kind of leading this problem.

    • johnmormonexpression Reply

      Good point. I don’t believe that it is by nefarious design. I think there is a social evolutionary cause of these sorts of thing because they are effective for controlling members and thus emerge, not by design, but because they create efficient organizations.

  3. W D Reply

    Have to say though I was disappointed there wasn’t any mention of literal $$. How much money do we have to spend on tithing, plus underwear, magazine subscriptions, mormon paraphrenalia (pictures, sculptures, artwork), books, scripture and cases, gas (each family member going back and forth for callings, meetings, and activities), offerings, temple clothing, scouting gear and activities, music, suits and dresses, ties, not to mention ward activities that are at least in part paid for out of pocket. When you add it all up a good mormon doesn’t have time or money to be successful at anything else (and if they do it’s time for them to be called into leadership).

  4. Larrin Reply

    Small correction: Harold B. Lee started the prototype welfare program in his stake, not David O. McKay.

  5. PaultheGeologist Reply

    Awesome podcast….one of the best I’ve heard on ME! This podcast really resonated with me and mirrored my feelings and the inner thoughts I’ve been having for a few years now but was unable to articulate as eloquently as was done here. I felt like getting out of my car and giving you guys a standing ovation when it was over. Very well done.

  6. jennwestfall Reply

    This was an amazing podcast. I especially like the part about it being hard to cut ties the older you are–you have more invested emotionally and also more resources…it does become an issue of I’ve put so much into this how do I walk away…same reason I stayed in my marriage for so long…I had already put so much time and energy and money in, it was hard to walk away. But at some point no matter how much you repair your car, it is just time to take it to the junk yard.

  7. Taryn Fox Reply

    The fact that movement atheism doesn’t make much effort to reach out to the poor and disenfranchised is the main reason why there are so few atheists in prison. The largest predictors of whether a person goes to prison or not are race and economic class, and most movement atheists are white and middle-to-upper class.

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