Episode 32: Faith & Graduate School–A panel Discussion

George interviews three graduate students: Melanny, James and Clay. The group discusses issues of faith encountered as students.
Episode 32

20 comments on “Episode 32: Faith & Graduate School–A panel Discussion”

  1. badseed Reply

    I’ve said it before. I’ll say it again. Thanks for the podcast. After all this time it is still helpful to hear others talk about experiences that I have had as well. It helps me to feel more at peace with the process of re-evaluating my relationship with Mormonism.

    Thanks to the panelists.

  2. badseed Reply

    I’ve said it before. I’ll say it again. Thanks for the podcast. After all this time it is still helpful to hear others talk about experiences that I have had as well. It helps me to feel more at peace with the process of re-evaluating my relationship with Mormonism.

    Thanks to the panelists.

  3. Randall Reply

    For some reason, I can’t hear these types of stories enough. One of the panelists had nearly the same process I had. I could find answers to problem after problem but when I hit polyandry, it was too much. Then those “answers” I had for my other issues no longer held any water. It all collapsed from there. Especially when you truly dive into books like Rough Stone, Insider’s View, and In Sacred Loneliness. Shaky apologist explanation after explanation creates a tapestry so full of holes, the conclusion becomes obvious.

  4. Randall Reply

    For some reason, I can’t hear these types of stories enough. One of the panelists had nearly the same process I had. I could find answers to problem after problem but when I hit polyandry, it was too much. Then those “answers” I had for my other issues no longer held any water. It all collapsed from there. Especially when you truly dive into books like Rough Stone, Insider’s View, and In Sacred Loneliness. Shaky apologist explanation after explanation creates a tapestry so full of holes, the conclusion becomes obvious.

  5. Eric comstock Reply

    It’s amazing how similar our stories really are. Listening to James tell his story…I kept nodding my head thinking that’s how it happened to me. I would like to hear a follow up story in 6 months or so to see where they are then. I feel like I am sitting on the fence between staying in the church and walking away. I sort of got the impression that was where these people were too so it would be interesting to see where they are in a little while.

  6. Eric comstock Reply

    It’s amazing how similar our stories really are. Listening to James tell his story…I kept nodding my head thinking that’s how it happened to me. I would like to hear a follow up story in 6 months or so to see where they are then. I feel like I am sitting on the fence between staying in the church and walking away. I sort of got the impression that was where these people were too so it would be interesting to see where they are in a little while.

  7. Swearing Elder Reply

    Getting a Ph.D. didn’t not cause me to leave the church. I got a Ph.D. and left the church for the same reason: I’m a curious person. My curiosity showed me that the church just ain’t what it claims to be…

    This was a great session — I recognized myself in a lot of their comments.

  8. Swearing Elder Reply

    Getting a Ph.D. didn’t not cause me to leave the church. I got a Ph.D. and left the church for the same reason: I’m a curious person. My curiosity showed me that the church just ain’t what it claims to be…

    This was a great session — I recognized myself in a lot of their comments.

  9. Shlooper Reply

    Thanks for an awesome podcast. I feel like a lot of this has been true for me as an undergraduate as well. Perhaps some of it is that universities are nurturing environments for questioning, but I think that there is also a lot to be said for leaving primarily mormon environments as well. When it becomes ok to question we do. I think that I ultimately left while I was an undergraduate because for the first time I felt like nobody would judge me if I asked the questions that I had previously ignored.

    I related to the part about the psychologist at the end, I went to one while I was going through the anger phase, and she just didn’t get why I couldn’t put mormonism aside. Ultimately while I was seeing her, she did some research about people leaving mormonism, and suddenly she understood a lot better.

    I definitely related to this podcast — excellent job.

  10. Shlooper Reply

    Thanks for an awesome podcast. I feel like a lot of this has been true for me as an undergraduate as well. Perhaps some of it is that universities are nurturing environments for questioning, but I think that there is also a lot to be said for leaving primarily mormon environments as well. When it becomes ok to question we do. I think that I ultimately left while I was an undergraduate because for the first time I felt like nobody would judge me if I asked the questions that I had previously ignored.

    I related to the part about the psychologist at the end, I went to one while I was going through the anger phase, and she just didn’t get why I couldn’t put mormonism aside. Ultimately while I was seeing her, she did some research about people leaving mormonism, and suddenly she understood a lot better.

    I definitely related to this podcast — excellent job.

  11. Gail F. Bartholomew Reply

    Thank you all for sharing your stories. I hope you do not mind I have some comments on two issues brought up within your stories.

    By virtue of the priesthood men are the head of the house hold and have stewardship over their wives, yet “No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood”?

    The question was asked how to justify the Bible with the reality of homosexuality? It sounds like you no longer are perusing this question because you are in a different place with your belief in the Bible. Still, I think it is import to point out the few sources that condemn homosexuality in the Bible the church disregard information from those same sources. The only real places that condemn homosexuality in the Bible are Leviticus and Paul. I challenge you to find anything with the few exceptions of the quotations of one of the Ten Commandments in Leviticus that the church follows today. Looking at Paul understand that most of what Paul says on the topic of sexuality is disregarded by the church. Paul says that you can serve God better by not marrying. Paul says the only reason to marry is if you can not control your sexual desire. The church rejects these things about sexuality stated by Paul, and the church also rejects nearly the whole book of Leviticus, why does the church choose to follow this doctrine only sited in the bible by these two sources. Also remember there are no other scriptural sources or revelation sources for the church’s bigoted policy on homosexuality.

  12. Gail F. Bartholomew Reply

    Thank you all for sharing your stories. I hope you do not mind I have some comments on two issues brought up within your stories.

    By virtue of the priesthood men are the head of the house hold and have stewardship over their wives, yet “No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood”?

    The question was asked how to justify the Bible with the reality of homosexuality? It sounds like you no longer are perusing this question because you are in a different place with your belief in the Bible. Still, I think it is import to point out the few sources that condemn homosexuality in the Bible the church disregard information from those same sources. The only real places that condemn homosexuality in the Bible are Leviticus and Paul. I challenge you to find anything with the few exceptions of the quotations of one of the Ten Commandments in Leviticus that the church follows today. Looking at Paul understand that most of what Paul says on the topic of sexuality is disregarded by the church. Paul says that you can serve God better by not marrying. Paul says the only reason to marry is if you can not control your sexual desire. The church rejects these things about sexuality stated by Paul, and the church also rejects nearly the whole book of Leviticus, why does the church choose to follow this doctrine only sited in the bible by these two sources. Also remember there are no other scriptural sources or revelation sources for the church’s bigoted policy on homosexuality.

  13. James Reply

    Gail, you’re right I am no longer pursuing the questions I had about homosexuality and whether it is a choice or an attribute a person is born with. I now believe it is mostly something people are born with and not really a choice. This took some time to accept but given the current science on the subject I could no longer hold to the rigid view of the Bible. I never did hate people with same sex attraction, but felt compelled by my faith and belief that it was a choice and rejected their lifestyle, which unfortunately was interpreted by others as hate. I believe there are many other Mormons still stuck in that place. I currently support same sex marriage, as I don’t see how it would possibly impact my marriage. Everyone has the right to the happiness that a committed relationship brings.

    I now view the scriptures that speak against homosexuality as bigoted statements made by people that feared others different than themselves. I don’t believe our Heavenly Father would want someone to live a life of celibacy as the Church currently requires for gays and it saddens me that they continue to place conditions on their involvement in the LDS Church.

  14. James Reply

    Gail, you’re right I am no longer pursuing the questions I had about homosexuality and whether it is a choice or an attribute a person is born with. I now believe it is mostly something people are born with and not really a choice. This took some time to accept but given the current science on the subject I could no longer hold to the rigid view of the Bible. I never did hate people with same sex attraction, but felt compelled by my faith and belief that it was a choice and rejected their lifestyle, which unfortunately was interpreted by others as hate. I believe there are many other Mormons still stuck in that place. I currently support same sex marriage, as I don’t see how it would possibly impact my marriage. Everyone has the right to the happiness that a committed relationship brings.

    I now view the scriptures that speak against homosexuality as bigoted statements made by people that feared others different than themselves. I don’t believe our Heavenly Father would want someone to live a life of celibacy as the Church currently requires for gays and it saddens me that they continue to place conditions on their involvement in the LDS Church.

  15. Joseph Reply

    This discussion resonates a lot with me, since my own revelation came in the middle of grad school (and derailed me pretty effectively for several months without killing my career outright). Despite the difficulty, I also feel much more peaceful and happy now than I have for a long time: I turn down church callings now with no guilt, and my relationships with family, friends, and colleagues (in my academic field and at church) are more genuine. I am working toward a personal vision of human spirituality, and it is kind of exciting (especially when viewed in contrast to my last years in church, which were very boring and painful: boring because I knew all the answers; painful because they made no sense).

  16. Joseph Reply

    This discussion resonates a lot with me, since my own revelation came in the middle of grad school (and derailed me pretty effectively for several months without killing my career outright). Despite the difficulty, I also feel much more peaceful and happy now than I have for a long time: I turn down church callings now with no guilt, and my relationships with family, friends, and colleagues (in my academic field and at church) are more genuine. I am working toward a personal vision of human spirituality, and it is kind of exciting (especially when viewed in contrast to my last years in church, which were very boring and painful: boring because I knew all the answers; painful because they made no sense).

  17. TNOrange Reply

    Alan, I am wondering if any of your daughters had difficulty with the change in religion? My daughter has had a long journey.

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