Episode 237: Nibley’s Book of Mormon Challenge

8 comments on “Episode 237: Nibley’s Book of Mormon Challenge”

  1. Dan Reply

    Regarding Mike’s “1400 yr old mine” in Peru called the Minaj Primavera; he’s, not surprisingly, wrong. 1st off, 1400 year old mine would date it to 600 AD, 200 years too late but as it turns out he misspoke. It dates to 100BC – 600AD.
    But what was mined? A red iron-oxide used for …. paint pigment. That’s right, the iron armor should be reconsidered as iron-oxide pigmented body painting.

    Funny thing is we also know a reasonable amount about the Nasca people who did the mining. Their culture and religion is has nothing in common with Hebrew culture and traditons which, even if they were Lamanites who rejected the traditions of their fathers, would not have been able to so thoroughly divorce themselves from all aspects of culture. (And if they had influenced the Nephites at all, we’d expect a shout-out to llamas and AQUADUCTS in the Book of Mormon, and corn, and chocolate…)

  2. Duke of Earl Grey Reply

    What was Randy’s quote from the Creation Museum at the end going to be? He said “Science” and then got interrupted and we never got back to it…

    “Science again! I said Science again!”

    • JT Reply

      Maybe it was from the President/CEO and founder Ken Hamm

      “If you’re saying this part [of the Bible] that said God made land animals and man on the same day is not true, then ultimately why should I believe this bit over here?”

  3. JT Reply

    Fanks for dat Nibs disbunk’n. He be fugly Twitney Spheres rectal pissin dat apology shit. Fo’shizzel. Harshed my slapsexual trusticles back when I be oxymormon.

  4. Will Roberts Reply

    John, one minor correction. The phrase “pure and delightsome” was initiated by Joseph Smith himself in the 1840 edition of the BoM in Nauvoo. This change apparently did not make it in to future versions of the BoM until someone conveniently noticed it in 1981. See http://www.calameo.com/read/001554655e3171c78b192 on page 115.

  5. Scott Evans Reply


    great article on the mine. In particular is the quote “While iron was never smelted in the ancient New World, indigenous people of North and South America made extensive use of ochres as decorative pigments, preservatives and abrasives for polishing bone and ivory.

    Perfect apologistic “leap of faith”. They mined the raw material, thus they had the finished product. NOPE.

  6. JT Reply

    “There is a rule laid down by Blass, that whoever presumes to doubt the
    purported source and authorship of a document cannot possibly escape the
    obligation of supplying a more plausible account in its stead.” – Hugh Nibley

    What can be a LESS plausible account than an occult-loving, buried
    treasure-seeking, self-proclaimed end-of-times prophet who re-tasked his
    peep-stone to “translate” angel-delivered, “reformed-Egyptian”
    glyph-inscribed gold plates telling the history of the American Indian’s
    Israelite ancestors who were visited by a resurrected Jesus who
    descended from heaven shortly after destroying great swaths of Central
    America in order to deliver Sermon on the Mount 2.0 to the
    righteous survivors while out-doing his Old World fish-multiplying by
    producing bread and wine ex nihilo?

    But then, this is how most religions externalize the cost – and burden – of responsible rationality.

  7. Rude Dog Reply

    It’s a great subject and wish we could have delved into the man himself, however I was more and more distracted towards the end as the Mike bashing became more and more prevalent. Listen, I’m as out of the church and Atheistic as they come, and sometimes the only thing that has to be said to make the grand point of the ridiculousness of Mormonism is whatever comes out of the mouth of a believer, but Mike deserves to be treated with respect and dignity, as we are lucky to have his contribution. In this sea of the liberal interpretative goobledy-gook of Mormon doctrine via internet types, Mike is some of the last that will openly articulate true Mormon positions i.e. no death before the fall, the need for a literal Adam and Eve, a literal Noah’s Ark. I find Mike refreshingly honest and tells the honest Mormon position regarding our doctrine. He deserves better from all of you.

    I don’t know if it’s the alcohol, or if John you’re just losing patience. I’ve been listening since you were a snot nosed believer, observing your progress to weak knee’d agnostic, finally smiling when you had the courage to call yourself Atheist. I enjoy your work, and wish it to continue, however let’s do it without the condescending edge that seems to be creeping in a few, and I will say it is not encompassing to all, but a few of your podcasts. Your podcasts on the Nauvoo Expositor represents some of your best work, including the first ten minutes of the first podcast where Mike couldn’t and wouldn’t provide any comeback to the devastating facts of the insanity that was the Nauvoo period. That’s what we need. Lindsay’s contribution to the Euthyphro dilemma and her ignorance and liberal fluff of our Mormon doctrine is ten times more annoying then Mike ever thought of being. Let’s not set Mike up as a strawman to crassly pile on as he is a valuable voice of what Mormons truly believe, and sometimes all that has to happen is to let him have an unfettered expression of those views in order for those who have a rational bone in their body to consider critically, the truth claims of the Mormon church.

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