Episode 238: Top Ten Things ExMos Do That Suck

14 comments on “Episode 238: Top Ten Things ExMos Do That Suck”

  1. SLC Bunk Reply

    As a new exmo (a little over a year), I really appreciated this conversation. It was a good reminder to stay rational in my criticisms of the LDS church and not let my anger get the best of me. Thank you john and all other contributors for this podcast, as I credit it for making my transition a little easier.

  2. Joe_Utah Reply

    Your discussion regarding the criticism of The LDS Church over their use of finances cracked me up. John, I would agree with you that the Mormon Church may have a long history of “Building the Kingdom”… or whatever you want to call it.
    I think for most ex-Mormons, NOMs, etc., the criticism has been that the COJC is using funds in a manner that is NOT in harmony with The Gospel of Jesus Christ. Sure, the use may be in harmony with the historical pattern for the COJC. But that doesn’t necessarily conform with The Gospels (MMLJ).
    That said (and speaking partly tongue-in-cheeck), how many of us wouldn’t mind being an heir to the kingdom? After all, if you are a Hinkley, McConkie, Monson, etc., you could honestly prophecy to ‘Great Wealth in Your Future’. After all, to fulfill that prophecy you would only need to reach out to grandpa.
    And let’s end with the two Bull-S*** points. First, the COJC just published another article in The Ensign (you all saw it) that says “a good member” will pay 10 percent (or more) of their gross income EVEN BEFORE they pay their bills or feed their kids. And second, regardless of cost, the COJC likely spent more on a mall* then they spent on humanitarian aid (over the 25 years preceding it). Those things just seem morally wrong to many.
    * http://www.justluxe.com/luxe-insider/trends/feature-1739080.php

  3. Joe_Utah Reply

    And your safety net argument… ROFL.
    Should I resign from the COJC? Or should I stay in The Mormon Church… because the COJC has such an awesome safety net?
    ♫ DUMB ♪ DUMB ♫ DUMB ♪ DUMB ♫ DUMB ♪

  4. Jim Mack Reply

    John mentioned live recordings at the new recording studio, any information on when and where this will be?

    • johnmormonexpression Reply

      The live recordings will begin on Tuesday February 4th in Salt Lake City. The recordings will generally be on Tuesdays at 7pm.

      The Studio address is 423 W 800 South A110 Salt Lake City, UT 84101.

  5. aerin64 Reply

    I’m shocked that anyone can actually define what mormon doctrine is, much less how using church/corporate funds does (or does not) fit with the mission of building the kingdom.

    I think this list missed the pivot that the LDS church and corporation have done by becoming more mainstream Christian (or attempting to appear to be more mainstream Christian).

  6. Furtwangler Reply

    City Creek: The cost of the downtown development was $5 billion, as asserted by the Salt Lake City Chamber of Commerce in KSL News: http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=19428181&title=a-look-inside-as-city-creek-centers-completion-nears&s_cid=featured-1

    To be clear, not all of it was paid by the church. Another KSL article stated that the church contributed $3 billion.

    Mall costs and profits: I think it is wise for non-profits to own for-profit entities, and I could forgive the whole venture, if it made financial sense.

    A regional mall this size typically cost $500 million, brand new. And it usually takes at least 10 years to earn back the principle outlay (50 million profit per year).

    City Creek had a much higher return during the honeymoon phase, but that probably won’t last, as more people turn to online shopping. People use malls to try on clothes and to price things out, then they buy online, unless you are part of Packers generation 😉

    Even with generous returns, it will still take 30-70 years, before turning a profit. Will shoppers move toward or away from malls, along the cash-strapped, provident-living Wasatch front? There are MANY articles such as this one, regarding the decline of shopping malls: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-death-of-shopping-malls/

    What we ended up with is a nicer downtown, which might be justified in some aesthetic way (fire fountains and views of the smog), but it’s not an example of financial prudence. And the condos were put on the market at the bottom of the real estate bust, so the timing wasn’t very good. Perhaps things will be OK over the long run (condos).

    Giving to the poor-take care of your own.
    My personal philosophy is that “taking care of your own” is a superior model for charitable giving, as long as others are allowed to join. Instead of throwing money at broken systems, we should stretch out the tent and invite others to join a system that already works. Plus, it’s easier to keep track of who is getting help, and where the money is going. This also my position on immigration and foreign aid. Yes, there are strings attached, but anybody can join the church. Whether secular or sectarian, there should ALWAYS be strings attached to financial assistance. Any other model is unsustainable.

    BYU helps the poor: A large portion of tithing subsidizes the church-owned universities. http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,816631,817268

    In general, college students are poor, deserving, and worth the investment. BYU’s tuition is roughly 10 times less expensive than other privately-owned church schools (Lutherans, Methodist, etc). I am not a member anymore, but I’m grateful for the subsidized education that allowed me to avoid student loans, while receiving $0 from my parents. I like the idea of investing in young, hopeful, promising college students, who will one day give back to society. Giving to the church (BYU) allows that choice.

    What is not charitable about the church:
    BYU business and law professors earning 3-4 times that of professors in the humanities (what about the united order?)

    Temples (the rites could be done in ward houses)

    Family history and extraction (are the needs of the dead really greater than our own?)

    Toyota Avalons and other excessive travel expenses.

    Proselyting missions (people should be allowed to choose a service mission instead)

    All programs that revolve around indoctrination (youth manuals, firesides, gospel principles, leadership training meetings,etc.)

  7. Riley Ockerman Reply

    So glad you stopped bleeping the f-bombs. Not sure if this is the first episode sans bleeping but it’s the first one I’ve noticed. Keep up the good work! And expect to see a coffee mug in your mailbox soon!

  8. MrOneTwo Reply

    Listening to this and feeling passionate about beer. Why does a 6 pack of Moose Drool or Fat Tire cost me $12-13 in Utah, but only $8 in Idaho, Nevada, Wyoming, California, etc… a 50% markup is not insignificant.

  9. Francine Johnson McGee Reply

    This was a great podcast. The more I listen the lest I want anything to do with the church. I guess since I attend less than once a month, and if my roommate didn’t want to go, since I’m her caregiver I need to take her when she does want to. Last Sunday one of our visiting teacher’s picked her up, since I had to drive my son to work. I was going to go after I dropped him off, but I just couldn’t do it. I couldn’t go.. She had a meeting with our lovely new bishop, who said no to her request for a food order, which we don’t need, I’d rather go to the food bank. He wants a rundown of our finances, and since I don’t want anything from them, I don’t want to give it to him. I stopped tithing this year, and I don’t intend to start again. The new bishop wants more info for a food order than the government did for food stamps. Sad.

  10. Joshua Petersen Reply

    I enjoyed this – it helped me to critically examine my criticisms and feelings about the church.

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