Episode 253: Mountain Meadows Massacre, It Could Happen to You

15 comments on “Episode 253: Mountain Meadows Massacre, It Could Happen to You”

  1. Daryl Sturgess Reply

    I am rereading Bradshaw’s Family Secrets, and can’t help but look at what it explores as I listened to this.

    I’d be very interested to see if there are signs of internalised trauma following this event, such as shorter lives, elevated mental health problems.

  2. Pingback: Episode 109: It Could Have Been You- Lessons From Mountain Meadows Massacre | FMH Podcast

  3. Chris W Reply

    Wonder which book is the #1 to recommended me on the Mountain Meadows story?

  4. Roy Reply

    Nothing to do with MMM. Just the missionary shenanigans, I was in the same zone as an elder who would sneak out after his companion was asleep and bike to his investigator/ girlfriends house and have threesomes. He was ex’d and sent home. Another one was busted down from Zone Leader to Junior Companion due to initiating phone sex with a sister missionary. I knew of 4 or 5 elders emergency transferred because their companion caught them kissing girls. And someone close to me got a sister missionary pregnant.

    This was 15 years ago. I would imagine its got to be so much worse now that the age’s have been lowered and so many more young females going on missions.

  5. Gail F. Bartholomew Reply

    How is the political in the church today given BS Oaks and Packer feed the church about same sex marriage? I think of how many people did I talk to during prop 8 that said they believe in gay marriage but when the prophet speaks they will follow.

  6. Alan Reply

    Same as Roy’s comments above, this is nothing to do with the MMM discussion, but Lindsay’s question/comments about Mormon missionaries and their stories. These are not hearsay, but events that happened to me personally or that I had direct knowlege of.
    I’m no longer active, but neither am I proud of the things I did or let happen. I (me, personally) had physical relations with several women during my mission. Ranging from simply kissing, to intercourse. I had a companion who did the same, who I covered for when he would go out, who did the same, with the exception that he got the girl pregnant.
    More along the line of hearsay.. but I talked with the people who where part of it… there was a group of missionaries who would put on jeans and t-shirts, go out at night with the sole purpose of starting fights and beat up drunks. I was not part of this group, but I knew them, and saw the bruises and blood when then got back from a ‘night on the town’.
    I could go on, and on, and on. It’s real and it happens all the time. It’s just the members, and even Mission Presidents don’t want to hear about it.

    • ldslara Reply

      Haven’t had time to listen to this podcast yet, but I have downloaded it, and thought of it when I saw the essay the church just put out. Coincidence? Or did Mormon Expressions get somekind of advance warning that this was about to be released?

  7. Matt Reply

    My step-father divorced his first wife for cheating on him. This was in Tremonton, Utah, around ’96-97. She cheated on him with two missionaries that were in the area.

  8. Gabriel von Himmel Reply

    I’m surprised the comment on this podcast,
    Mountain Meadows Massacre
    was obsessed with Missionary dalliances rather than the pathology of a theocracy gone as mad as the Salem Witchcraft Trials, it’s as if Brigham and gang had dropped ergot grain. After listening to this great podcast with thorough research and comment on the state of frenzy in the Mormon Tribe, I, for some reason drew up Leni Riefenstahl’s propaganda film for Adolf Hitler, Triumph of the Will. I had never watched it before; a very scary propaganda documentary.
    I couldn’t separate the pathologies of either episode, Both Brigham and Adolf tapped and trapped the gestalt of Super Human Perception Management to the detriment of their followers.
    Mountain Meadows Massacre, It Could Happen to You: The Evangelical Drumming circle creates yet more victims for the infamous, atrocity justification, gives permission for crimes of passion visited upon in innocent.
    The condensed pathology is snatched from Shakespeare:
    “Beware the leader who beats the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into patriotic fervor, for patriotism is a double-edged sword. It emboldens the blood and narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need to seize the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar.”
    — Attributed to Shakespeare’s Julius Caesar

    Epologue: I believe lebensraum had much to do with both Adolf and Brigham’s need to acquire and dominate hearts, minds and territory.

    Gabriel von Himmel

  9. Nicki Reply

    Lindsay- I was married in the temple to a guy who after 3months if marriage broke down and admitted to me that on his mission in Korea he would drug his companion, sneak out at night and meet up with a girl for sex in these rooms you can rent to “watch a movie”. This went on the whole time he was in that area.

  10. Ramona Reply

    What’s up colleagues, fastidious post and fastidious arguments commented at this place, I am in fact enjoying by these.

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