Episode 259: The Tight Vs. Loose Translation Theories

21 comments on “Episode 259: The Tight Vs. Loose Translation Theories”

  1. Jenn Reply

    I do agree that John Dehlin has done more to destroy CURRENT mormonism than anyone else alive, but I do disagree with the term “anti-mormon” because he’s “pro-mormon” the way he defines “mormon”. He is trying to redefine mormon for the better, and I applaud him. I’m still happy to have nothing to do with it, but he is definitely serving a necessary and beneficial function for people who are in the position I was in two years ago. But I don’t think he wants to destroy mormonism, he wants to FIX it, overly ambitious and naive though that is.

    • Darin Reply

      Thank you, Jenn. You said exactly what I was thinking when that was brought up. He was a big help to me two years ago when I was making the transition.

    • Ryan Reply

      Hey John, love your podcasts since I stumbled on them a few months ago. So, I STONGLY disagree that John Dehlin is anti Mormon. I hit the apex of my crisis of faith Long before I found out who John Dehlin was. There are so many ligit places to find out now days about everything that this happens all the time. And when I was all ready to stomp all over everyone I loved because I was so pissed off he (and you) had a big part in helping me simmer down and try to find my way in a less hurtful manner. Considering all the HUGE holes of the Church out there I think it courageous that he is candidly open with his issues and how he has learned to cope with his membership in the Church. His podcast “Why I Stay” hits the nail on the head for me right now. And for all of you out there who say “Just leave already” I say to you “Shut the **** up! It’s complicated!” I hope you might reconsider what you said about John, John. And otherwise, keep up the good work. P.S. I wish you had a local therapist who worked with Aetna.

      • ChrisWir Reply

        Thirded!
        Think this is the only(?!) episode where I would have liked less “swear-jar”-contributions. I know many active members who – to a large enough extent – agrees with the points brought up, but due to the language would not listen for long if I sent a link. However, I believe that the profanities are valid.
        GREAT JOB ALL!

        • Gretch Reply

          Fourth! (as to the podcast dissecting the Radio West interview; the more cursing the better, for me).

        • John Larsen Reply

          Even if I stopped adding the wonderful tapestry of color that profanity brings to the dull world, I doubt Mormons would still find me palatable.

          That being said, I estimate about half of the listenership is Mormon. Maybe we should give them a little more credit?

  2. Teleste Reply

    The olive discussion was interesting, but saying that Moroni was unfamiliar with olive horticulture and therefore wouldn’t have been able to redact the speech properly it isn’t a great argument. Joseph Smith had no personal experience growing olive trees either (they definitely don’t grow in the Northeast). That would seem to support the argument that Joseph Smith didn’t write the metaphor, but someone who knew about all of trees did. Who was that person?

    (To me, there always seemed to be something horticulturally off about the olive metaphor, but I’m too lazy to go back and read it to remember what exactly it was. On the other hand, I only have experience in printing and grafting trees from colder regions, so I don’t really know anything more than Joseph Smith or Moroni.)

    • Shawn Reply

      For starters, they’re growing olives in a vineyard. Shouldn’t it be an olive yard?
      Seems to me the whole olive tree allegory is just a repetition of Romans 11:17, 24. Most of the horticultural information is contained in those two verses.

  3. Dave Reply

    When John was listing Joseph’s translations, he left out the translation of John’s Parchment (Section 7 of the Doctrine and Covenants). Oliver and Joseph had a disagreement about whether the Apostle John was still alive, and Joseph was able to settle their dispute by looking into the seer stone, seeing this parchment, and translating it.

    BTW, that Oliver would agree to solve their dispute by this method is probably one more piece of evidence that Oliver thought the Book of Mormon was a genuine translation (and that he was fairly gullible)

  4. Jon Reply

    The latest post by Pure Mormonism he goes into detail of the evidences that the courts were initiated by leadership.

  5. Lord of Darkness Reply

    So glad you mentioned the Ally Isom interview. I listened to it yesterday…what a train wreck. She admitted there’s no real basis for the doctrine and made so many asinine statements…makes you wonder why they even agreed to the interview. A damage control mission that only caused more damage.

    And I hope to hear John enjoy a little humble pie after his prophesy of Kate Kelly getting “disfellowshipped” turned out to be false.

  6. Kristi Reply

    Oh my god, this podcast almost gave me a heart attack! I was listening to your podcast while I locked up my house to go to bed tonight. John is talking about Hugh Heffner and Playboy, and all of a sudden, a man (with a louder voice than John) calls out my name, “Kristi.” I almost jumped out of my skin, and my heart is totally pounding. Seriously, I didn’t think I’d lose sleep over a podcast, but I’m not going to be able to sleep for quite a while after that.

    • Thayne Reply

      Kristi,
      That was me. Give me your phone number and I’ll call you at bedtime some night when you least expect it.

  7. KC Reply

    Waaaayyy too much swearing in this one. I’m not a long time listener, but this has made me wary of tuning in again.

    • Ryan Reply

      Agreed. Although, I laughed out loud when John said “They don’t listen to me, I say f***!” And “any a**hole with a microphone…” Funny stuff. Sadly, when I shared this with my disaffected wife she just cringed at the foul language. I know John (and panel) is making a point with the swearing and I get that, but just because one leaves the Mormon Church doesn’t mean everyone else in the world swears like a sailor and they should too. It makes what is otherwise a BRILLIANT discussion and something I want to share with others (including younger folk) not so much. Man, I sound like a complainer. Sorry about that John. I truly love listening and can’t wait for the next one. Great work (less swearing?).

  8. Tyler Reply

    John,

    Love the podcasts.

    Prior to your podcasts, I knew that apologists switch between loose and tight translations when providing answers to questions. Regardless of how unbelievable some of these explanations may be regarding the criticisms to the Book of Mormon.

    One of the things you talk about in your podcast is how apologists do this, and why they shouldn’t do this because the two are mutually exclusive. I.e., either he did a loose translation or a tight one—he couldn’t have done both. Logically, I can’t see why in certain sections Joseph couldn’t have used a tight translation and then in other sections.

    • Tyler Reply

      I meant to ask,

      Whay couldn’t Joseph have used a tight translation in some sections than a loose translation in other sections?

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