Episode 50b: 180th Annual General Conference Sunday Review

Tom is joined by Mike, Glenn and Jim to discuss the Sunday morning session. John is joined by Andrew, Rich, Seth and Jon B to talk through the afternoon session.

Episode 50b

44 comments on “Episode 50b: 180th Annual General Conference Sunday Review”

  1. Andrew S. Reply

    “Remarkable: It sounds like it’s good but it really just means you can make a remark about it.”

    Was that Glenn? Get that guy a spot on the show regularly…

  2. Andrew S. Reply

    “Remarkable: It sounds like it’s good but it really just means you can make a remark about it.”

    Was that Glenn? Get that guy a spot on the show regularly…

  3. Pingback: Mormon Expression and ME! « Irresistible (Dis)Grace

  4. Richard of Norway Reply

    @Andrew S: Dude, are you stalking me? Please don’t try to argue with me over here now too. I vowed never to return to poor Chris’s blog after your last vindictive and insulting form of debate over there.

    That said, I agree with you on this one: Glenn is a great asset to the podcast! Thanks for coming on, Glenn! 🙂

    Gotta say I really enjoy these. They actually make me (almost) want to watch Conference again! And I never thought that would happen! (My wife would thank you.)

    Glenn, you never gave your ratings for the other talks, except an A+ for Duckdorph’s. (I’ve got to be misspelling the dude’s name. I mean no disrespect!) Could you rate the rest here? 🙂

  5. Richard of Norway Reply

    @Andrew S: Dude, are you stalking me? Please don’t try to argue with me over here now too. I vowed never to return to poor Chris’s blog after your last vindictive and insulting form of debate over there.

    That said, I agree with you on this one: Glenn is a great asset to the podcast! Thanks for coming on, Glenn! 🙂

    Gotta say I really enjoy these. They actually make me (almost) want to watch Conference again! And I never thought that would happen! (My wife would thank you.)

    Glenn, you never gave your ratings for the other talks, except an A+ for Duckdorph’s. (I’ve got to be misspelling the dude’s name. I mean no disrespect!) Could you rate the rest here? 🙂

  6. Glenn Reply

    Thanks guys. It was fun to be able to do this. Sure, I’ll give you my other grades — just keep in mind that I graded these based only on how much I liked them while I was listening from 1am to 3am (Tokyo time), so it was a pretty arbitrary rating system. I’ll just copy and paste the notes I took as I was preparing for this. As you can see, there were some things that I considered talking about but never really got around to. But this will at least give you an idea why I rated them what I did:

    ————————-

    Opening prayer: The “gift” of immortality – but only through repentance to we gain “access” to exaltation (grace vs. works). Chuckle worthy dramatics at the end. I am awful.

    This Is The Christ (Mo Tab) – beautiful song.

    ————————-

    President Uchdorf

    Statue damaged in WWII – hands could not be restored. “You are my hands.” Comfort heal bless love. Talked with, not down. Humble, meek. Hope. Salvation.

    People who don’t fit in. [more please]

    Story of canned food Mormons – the members who looked down on them.

    It is not good to make others feel deficient. Be more compassionate, more charitable. Don’t judge.

    Highest reproach to those who hold themselves in high esteem [um… ‘chosen people’ anyone?].

    Don’t accept sin or overlook evil. Don’t confuse sin with sinner – don’t condemn sinner with little compassion. Comfort those who stand in need of comfort. (that’s a careful line to walk – examples of members try to give comfort but end up sticking their foot in their mouth)

    Importance of action over words. Love of Savior. Be His hands. AMEN.

    GRADE = A+

    ————————-

    Richard G Scott

    Shattering the chains of death. Infinite and eternal atonement. (Death without the atonement would have just sucked).

    Members of the church can understand Jesus more fully because we have the fullness of His doctrine. (What value is this statement???)

    For the proud and haughty it is as if no atonement had been made. (Really? This seems like a pretty proud and haughty message. Troubling irony. And kind of an attack on the infinite power of the atonement)

    Atonement gives “opportunity” to overcome sin. Atonement “permits’ us to repent.

    [Do you think he really feels all these weepy moments, or is it a calculated, cynical performance? I don’t see the feeling in his eyes.]

    Go to the temple. Be a good father and mother. Ponder the scriptures. Power of the holy ghost to distill certainty in a time of uncertainty.

    GRADE = D

    ————————-

    Donald L. Halstrom

    Story of a generic bad family. “A heartbreak became a tragedy” [as opposed to what?]. Baby died – parents caught up in revenge and bitterness. Four generations – no spirituality for decades.

    Personal history of his own good aunt. She and the twins died. But they focused on the right things. His grandparents taught them well — not like the bad family — they were so good that they died within days of eachother.

    [Such a judgmental message – comparing the bad faithless family vs. the good faithful one — conveniently his]

    Simonds Ryder – oh brother.

    No matter how big the matter, the way we respond resets the course of our life.

    If you feel you have been wronged, deal directly, don’t give up, turn to the Lord. No manner of affliction save swallowed up in the joy of Christ – [so what happens when someone doesn’t feel that? what about mourning with them that mourn? this sounds like those who mourn are deficient because they don’t let Christ’s joy swallow it up]

    GRADE = D

    ————————-

    Cheryl Lant

    Demonstrating how to speak to young children. “Pitcher.” Coming to Christ. seeking him so that we see his face in the next life. Parents bringing the children.

    1. Love the Lord and love our children (time, experience, faith, selfless service)
    2. Become a worthy example (we have to seek Jesus and know the way in order to show it to the kids, put our own lives in order – we can become worthy parents and leaders just by striding)
    3. Teach the children the gospel (process of teaching the truths from scriptures and the prophets, they intuitively want to be good, up to us to protect them and keep their connection to heaven)

    [I believe the children are the future, teach them well and let them lead the way… ]

    GRADE = (no grade – just a smiley face with gold stars for eyes)

    ————————-

    Quentin L Cook

    Celebrate the victory over death.

    Last supper. Christ established three key ordinances and doctrines (why three?):

    1. sacrament – body, do in rememberance of me
    2. doctrines teaching Love – by this shall all men know,
    3. holy ghost promised as another comforter (atonement?)

    His favorite word seems to be “supernal”

    The symbol of Christ (he lives on the throne, not the cross) — [previous ME podcast about cross iconography].

    Emulate Christ in his last two days (back to the three pattern):
    1. Jesus didn’t prepare a defense, he established the sacrament – we must remember the savior and repent,
    2. We need to love one another (many in the world in turmoil are angry – we need to be civil and respectful – love even our enemies – how we disagree is a measure of how well we follow the savior – don’t disrespect)
    3. Recognize the holy ghost – look for his confirming influence – be sealed by the spirit of promise – slow down, ponder, pray, seek for the holy ghost and heed his warnings (the atoning trials are examples for us – human frailty yielding to god’s will – earthquakes and tsunami’s a sign of last days – this discussion is devolving into the interesting story of Sonny Purcell and the tidal wave – we pray for their safety, and hope for the best because we believe in Jesus Christ — awkward parallel – seek the higher ground of the temple)

    Christ may have paved the way but he’s not going to reach down and pull us up – we have to run to the high ground like the Samoan kids running from a tidal wave.

    GRADE = B-

    ————————-

    Thomas S. Monson

    “Remarkable” session.

    “Thank You.” Two most important words.

    Visited an art gallery in London. Painting of the woman who lost her husband at sea. Death comes to all. And it’s sad.

    Job’s question: If a man die, shall he live again?

    Who can doubt that there is a designer? (Instead of vilifying doubt, why not emphasize the value of faith in the face of legitimate doubt?)

    Creation story – Genesis. Come to earth to get a body and overcome trials. Reinforcing the central myth of Mormonism. Summary of Christ’s life and death and resurrection. Father forgive them.

    The empty tomb answered Job’s question. In Adam all die, in Christ all made alive. (nice way to pull it back to the opening question – good structure)

    He lives. Close quote. (I forgot how many times Monson says “close quote” – close quote.)

    Peace and comfort. Uplifting story of Jason’s death. If we do our very best to obey we will see him again. [there you go again with the works – we have to do our very best or we’re screwed – why deemphasize the atonement like that? how powerful and infinitely pervasive is the atonement if it requires our best efforts to activate it – is the atonement a dormant thing until we activate it with priesthood or works?]

    GRADE = B

  7. Glenn Reply

    Thanks guys. It was fun to be able to do this. Sure, I’ll give you my other grades — just keep in mind that I graded these based only on how much I liked them while I was listening from 1am to 3am (Tokyo time), so it was a pretty arbitrary rating system. I’ll just copy and paste the notes I took as I was preparing for this. As you can see, there were some things that I considered talking about but never really got around to. But this will at least give you an idea why I rated them what I did:

    ————————-

    Opening prayer: The “gift” of immortality – but only through repentance to we gain “access” to exaltation (grace vs. works). Chuckle worthy dramatics at the end. I am awful.

    This Is The Christ (Mo Tab) – beautiful song.

    ————————-

    President Uchdorf

    Statue damaged in WWII – hands could not be restored. “You are my hands.” Comfort heal bless love. Talked with, not down. Humble, meek. Hope. Salvation.

    People who don’t fit in. [more please]

    Story of canned food Mormons – the members who looked down on them.

    It is not good to make others feel deficient. Be more compassionate, more charitable. Don’t judge.

    Highest reproach to those who hold themselves in high esteem [um… ‘chosen people’ anyone?].

    Don’t accept sin or overlook evil. Don’t confuse sin with sinner – don’t condemn sinner with little compassion. Comfort those who stand in need of comfort. (that’s a careful line to walk – examples of members try to give comfort but end up sticking their foot in their mouth)

    Importance of action over words. Love of Savior. Be His hands. AMEN.

    GRADE = A+

    ————————-

    Richard G Scott

    Shattering the chains of death. Infinite and eternal atonement. (Death without the atonement would have just sucked).

    Members of the church can understand Jesus more fully because we have the fullness of His doctrine. (What value is this statement???)

    For the proud and haughty it is as if no atonement had been made. (Really? This seems like a pretty proud and haughty message. Troubling irony. And kind of an attack on the infinite power of the atonement)

    Atonement gives “opportunity” to overcome sin. Atonement “permits’ us to repent.

    [Do you think he really feels all these weepy moments, or is it a calculated, cynical performance? I don’t see the feeling in his eyes.]

    Go to the temple. Be a good father and mother. Ponder the scriptures. Power of the holy ghost to distill certainty in a time of uncertainty.

    GRADE = D

    ————————-

    Donald L. Halstrom

    Story of a generic bad family. “A heartbreak became a tragedy” [as opposed to what?]. Baby died – parents caught up in revenge and bitterness. Four generations – no spirituality for decades.

    Personal history of his own good aunt. She and the twins died. But they focused on the right things. His grandparents taught them well — not like the bad family — they were so good that they died within days of eachother.

    [Such a judgmental message – comparing the bad faithless family vs. the good faithful one — conveniently his]

    Simonds Ryder – oh brother.

    No matter how big the matter, the way we respond resets the course of our life.

    If you feel you have been wronged, deal directly, don’t give up, turn to the Lord. No manner of affliction save swallowed up in the joy of Christ – [so what happens when someone doesn’t feel that? what about mourning with them that mourn? this sounds like those who mourn are deficient because they don’t let Christ’s joy swallow it up]

    GRADE = D

    ————————-

    Cheryl Lant

    Demonstrating how to speak to young children. “Pitcher.” Coming to Christ. seeking him so that we see his face in the next life. Parents bringing the children.

    1. Love the Lord and love our children (time, experience, faith, selfless service)
    2. Become a worthy example (we have to seek Jesus and know the way in order to show it to the kids, put our own lives in order – we can become worthy parents and leaders just by striding)
    3. Teach the children the gospel (process of teaching the truths from scriptures and the prophets, they intuitively want to be good, up to us to protect them and keep their connection to heaven)

    [I believe the children are the future, teach them well and let them lead the way… ]

    GRADE = (no grade – just a smiley face with gold stars for eyes)

    ————————-

    Quentin L Cook

    Celebrate the victory over death.

    Last supper. Christ established three key ordinances and doctrines (why three?):

    1. sacrament – body, do in rememberance of me
    2. doctrines teaching Love – by this shall all men know,
    3. holy ghost promised as another comforter (atonement?)

    His favorite word seems to be “supernal”

    The symbol of Christ (he lives on the throne, not the cross) — [previous ME podcast about cross iconography].

    Emulate Christ in his last two days (back to the three pattern):
    1. Jesus didn’t prepare a defense, he established the sacrament – we must remember the savior and repent,
    2. We need to love one another (many in the world in turmoil are angry – we need to be civil and respectful – love even our enemies – how we disagree is a measure of how well we follow the savior – don’t disrespect)
    3. Recognize the holy ghost – look for his confirming influence – be sealed by the spirit of promise – slow down, ponder, pray, seek for the holy ghost and heed his warnings (the atoning trials are examples for us – human frailty yielding to god’s will – earthquakes and tsunami’s a sign of last days – this discussion is devolving into the interesting story of Sonny Purcell and the tidal wave – we pray for their safety, and hope for the best because we believe in Jesus Christ — awkward parallel – seek the higher ground of the temple)

    Christ may have paved the way but he’s not going to reach down and pull us up – we have to run to the high ground like the Samoan kids running from a tidal wave.

    GRADE = B-

    ————————-

    Thomas S. Monson

    “Remarkable” session.

    “Thank You.” Two most important words.

    Visited an art gallery in London. Painting of the woman who lost her husband at sea. Death comes to all. And it’s sad.

    Job’s question: If a man die, shall he live again?

    Who can doubt that there is a designer? (Instead of vilifying doubt, why not emphasize the value of faith in the face of legitimate doubt?)

    Creation story – Genesis. Come to earth to get a body and overcome trials. Reinforcing the central myth of Mormonism. Summary of Christ’s life and death and resurrection. Father forgive them.

    The empty tomb answered Job’s question. In Adam all die, in Christ all made alive. (nice way to pull it back to the opening question – good structure)

    He lives. Close quote. (I forgot how many times Monson says “close quote” – close quote.)

    Peace and comfort. Uplifting story of Jason’s death. If we do our very best to obey we will see him again. [there you go again with the works – we have to do our very best or we’re screwed – why deemphasize the atonement like that? how powerful and infinitely pervasive is the atonement if it requires our best efforts to activate it – is the atonement a dormant thing until we activate it with priesthood or works?]

    GRADE = B

  8. Andrew S. Reply

    Richard of Norway,

    Good to see you again! I still can’t tell if you’re being serious or sarcastic. “Vindictive and insulting” makes my day, either way! But seriously, I’ve been a friend of Mormon Expression since pretty close to the beginning, so…maybe if you want me to get angry and storm off, you’ll have to misspell my name or something.

    Glenn,

    Thanks for posting the rest of the rating. But now I want to strive for a smiley face with gold stars for eyes in my life.

  9. Andrew S. Reply

    Richard of Norway,

    Good to see you again! I still can’t tell if you’re being serious or sarcastic. “Vindictive and insulting” makes my day, either way! But seriously, I’ve been a friend of Mormon Expression since pretty close to the beginning, so…maybe if you want me to get angry and storm off, you’ll have to misspell my name or something.

    Glenn,

    Thanks for posting the rest of the rating. But now I want to strive for a smiley face with gold stars for eyes in my life.

  10. Swearing Elder Reply

    Remarkable: It sounds like it’s good but it really just means you can make a remark about it.

    Yes, I literally laughed heartily at that one driving to work this morning.

    I have to say this is such a better way of “listening” to conference. My B.S.-Meter also went WAY off hearing the Rider/Ryder Simmonds story (yes, I listened to one session of conference — I was in training to see if I could do it in the fall to be a commenter on M.E. 🙂 ). It’s good to be able to hear someone else talking about how silly some of this sounds.

    Also, I have to say that conference is tastier with cup of coffee. 🙂

  11. Swearing Elder Reply

    Remarkable: It sounds like it’s good but it really just means you can make a remark about it.

    Yes, I literally laughed heartily at that one driving to work this morning.

    I have to say this is such a better way of “listening” to conference. My B.S.-Meter also went WAY off hearing the Rider/Ryder Simmonds story (yes, I listened to one session of conference — I was in training to see if I could do it in the fall to be a commenter on M.E. 🙂 ). It’s good to be able to hear someone else talking about how silly some of this sounds.

    Also, I have to say that conference is tastier with cup of coffee. 🙂

  12. Bridget Jack Meyers Reply

    Since I was doing my gender rant on the other session, I just wanted to point out that in this session, Monson called Cheryl Lant “President Cheryl Lant” when he thanked her and her counselors. It’s a start.

    Andrew, it was good to hear your voice for the first time.

  13. Bridget Jack Meyers Reply

    Since I was doing my gender rant on the other session, I just wanted to point out that in this session, Monson called Cheryl Lant “President Cheryl Lant” when he thanked her and her counselors. It’s a start.

    Andrew, it was good to hear your voice for the first time.

  14. Molly Reply

    The Simonds Ryder story is, as you said, careless and lazy. It’s a fuzzy and unsubstantiated tale, and it was presented out of the social and historical context it occurred in. In the 1830’s and 1840’s, people were MUCH more superstitious than they are today. The use of magical amulets by the Smith family is well documented and is perfectly in keeping with New England folk magic of the day. Seeing your name misspelled on an important document could have been easily seen as a sign from God that something was wrong by someone with this folk magic mentality.

    Stories like this annoy me as much as the oversimplifications of why many early church leaders left. I was always told Sidney Rigdon and William Law were bad saints who lost their faith in Joseph Smith. Later I found out Smith lied to them in such a way that could easily have resulted in a duel back in that culture. Slandering people who are no longer around to defend themselves is very unfair, very petty, and extremely unhelpful to both the faithful and the disaffected.

  15. Molly Reply

    The Simonds Ryder story is, as you said, careless and lazy. It’s a fuzzy and unsubstantiated tale, and it was presented out of the social and historical context it occurred in. In the 1830’s and 1840’s, people were MUCH more superstitious than they are today. The use of magical amulets by the Smith family is well documented and is perfectly in keeping with New England folk magic of the day. Seeing your name misspelled on an important document could have been easily seen as a sign from God that something was wrong by someone with this folk magic mentality.

    Stories like this annoy me as much as the oversimplifications of why many early church leaders left. I was always told Sidney Rigdon and William Law were bad saints who lost their faith in Joseph Smith. Later I found out Smith lied to them in such a way that could easily have resulted in a duel back in that culture. Slandering people who are no longer around to defend themselves is very unfair, very petty, and extremely unhelpful to both the faithful and the disaffected.

  16. tim Reply

    Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these: It might have been.
    – John Greenleaf Whittier

  17. tim Reply

    Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these: It might have been.
    – John Greenleaf Whittier

  18. Sionpiensa Reply

    Great Podcast, many people will start by lisening to this reviews before they go into listening the conference

    About Urtchdorf
    To approach to those that “don’t fit in” is a great thing to say. He comes from Europe, and there mormonism is more tolerant with the “special situations” (generally).
    in the podcast there were positive comments about him, probably the best speaker in the conference…
    I think though, that he is loosing the original touch as he is more and more immerse in the Utah “state of mind”. Years ago he was the most approachable and direct GA speaker we had in Europe, he was great with stakes issues, I remember he was pragmatic and cared about the recent converts. I hope the 1st presidency status gives Monson a litle more of the “worldly understanding”, Monson is not Hinckely and obvisouly having been working for the Church and being an apostle for so long is not putting him in the best position to make judgements about the reality out of mormonland.

    I realzed that after last conference in some BYU talks Oaks and others really put the heavy words and attacks. General Conference is used to give the same messages as always, but the articles or BYU and other places are being used to give the hard core talks, like Oaks did about Freedom of religion. So I am staying alert at upcoming events soon after conference.

    But that is just me giving an opinion.

    Great podcast!!! thanks

  19. Sionpiensa Reply

    Great Podcast, many people will start by lisening to this reviews before they go into listening the conference

    About Urtchdorf
    To approach to those that “don’t fit in” is a great thing to say. He comes from Europe, and there mormonism is more tolerant with the “special situations” (generally).
    in the podcast there were positive comments about him, probably the best speaker in the conference…
    I think though, that he is loosing the original touch as he is more and more immerse in the Utah “state of mind”. Years ago he was the most approachable and direct GA speaker we had in Europe, he was great with stakes issues, I remember he was pragmatic and cared about the recent converts. I hope the 1st presidency status gives Monson a litle more of the “worldly understanding”, Monson is not Hinckely and obvisouly having been working for the Church and being an apostle for so long is not putting him in the best position to make judgements about the reality out of mormonland.

    I realzed that after last conference in some BYU talks Oaks and others really put the heavy words and attacks. General Conference is used to give the same messages as always, but the articles or BYU and other places are being used to give the hard core talks, like Oaks did about Freedom of religion. So I am staying alert at upcoming events soon after conference.

    But that is just me giving an opinion.

    Great podcast!!! thanks

  20. Bridget Jack Meyers Reply

    . . . and the printed text version of Monson’s talk reverts “President Cheryl Lant” back to “Sister Cheryl Lant.”

    You almost took a step in the right direction there, LDS church. Close call. I’ll bet you’re relieved.

  21. Bridget Jack Meyers Reply

    . . . and the printed text version of Monson’s talk reverts “President Cheryl Lant” back to “Sister Cheryl Lant.”

    You almost took a step in the right direction there, LDS church. Close call. I’ll bet you’re relieved.

  22. Eric comstock Reply

    I loved hearing everyones views on conference. Since I don’t watch it it’s a great way to get an idea of what’s going on. and John I like that you break the sessions up between different teams. thanks for taking the time to put these podcasts together.

  23. Eric comstock Reply

    I loved hearing everyones views on conference. Since I don’t watch it it’s a great way to get an idea of what’s going on. and John I like that you break the sessions up between different teams. thanks for taking the time to put these podcasts together.

  24. Pingback: Thoughts on President Uchtdorf’s “You Are My Hands” « Irresistible (Dis)Grace

  25. cinepro Reply

    Those were fun podcasts to listen to, especially for the sessions I didn’t watch.

    One thought that came to me about Elder Nelson’s vision of a family tree that covers “all of God’s children”: the Church will probably pull the plug about 2 seconds after they find a negro ancestor in Brigham Young’s line.

  26. cinepro Reply

    Those were fun podcasts to listen to, especially for the sessions I didn’t watch.

    One thought that came to me about Elder Nelson’s vision of a family tree that covers “all of God’s children”: the Church will probably pull the plug about 2 seconds after they find a negro ancestor in Brigham Young’s line.

  27. Thomas J Reply

    John,

    Since its inception, ME has added to the layers of my Mormon experience – regardless of my level of agreement with the guests or panels. The podcast has challenged my thinking in a lot of different ways. I’m grateful for that.

    For the conference episodes, I really appreciated the honest but gentle thoughts and opinions of many of the panelists. What disappointed me though, was the disparity of different points of view – particularly from someone who is still happily in the church. If the point of the reviews were for ex/post Mormons to confirm that – yes – they still don’t agree with much of what is said in conference- I would call it a success. If, on the other hand, you wanted to foster a diverse discussion of current Mormon teaching – I would say you were doomed before you started (based on your choice of panelists)

    For example, I mentioned your Taliban/Ballard comment to my wife (someone who refers to herself as both a feminist and a believing Mormon – and someone who is not afraid to be critical of the church) and she surprised me with a pretty good defense of what Ballard said. I actually disagreed with her – but it would have been nice to have more of those kinds of voices to make the panels less of a homogeneous group of polite – yet ultimately disaffected – group of ex – mo’s. I’m not saying you should have invited apologists – just someone else who has NOT left the church.

    Of course you’ve got Mike – the token TBM and Ms. Meyers – the second most apologetic of the bunch – but these panelist only made cameo appearances which – I think – made it less interesting for me…

  28. Thomas J Reply

    John,

    Since its inception, ME has added to the layers of my Mormon experience – regardless of my level of agreement with the guests or panels. The podcast has challenged my thinking in a lot of different ways. I’m grateful for that.

    For the conference episodes, I really appreciated the honest but gentle thoughts and opinions of many of the panelists. What disappointed me though, was the disparity of different points of view – particularly from someone who is still happily in the church. If the point of the reviews were for ex/post Mormons to confirm that – yes – they still don’t agree with much of what is said in conference- I would call it a success. If, on the other hand, you wanted to foster a diverse discussion of current Mormon teaching – I would say you were doomed before you started (based on your choice of panelists)

    For example, I mentioned your Taliban/Ballard comment to my wife (someone who refers to herself as both a feminist and a believing Mormon – and someone who is not afraid to be critical of the church) and she surprised me with a pretty good defense of what Ballard said. I actually disagreed with her – but it would have been nice to have more of those kinds of voices to make the panels less of a homogeneous group of polite – yet ultimately disaffected – group of ex – mo’s. I’m not saying you should have invited apologists – just someone else who has NOT left the church.

    Of course you’ve got Mike – the token TBM and Ms. Meyers – the second most apologetic of the bunch – but these panelist only made cameo appearances which – I think – made it less interesting for me…

  29. Andrew S. Reply

    Thomas,

    I’m certain that I’m part of the problem you speak of as well, but I will say that even *I* was surprised when I first got on about the “atmosphere” of things. I mean, I guess I can’t really blame anyone, since generally, I’ve not been all that excited for things like Conference, but when I decided to do the panel, I really wanted to prepare and get into things. I wanted to maybe provide something constructive — even if I’m not a believer.

    Things didn’t go quite as planned. I wasn’t very articulate to begin with, but even when I was, most comments were critical or “cheap shots”. I guess I kinda quickly reverted to trying to get in a few silly zings.

  30. Andrew S. Reply

    Thomas,

    I’m certain that I’m part of the problem you speak of as well, but I will say that even *I* was surprised when I first got on about the “atmosphere” of things. I mean, I guess I can’t really blame anyone, since generally, I’ve not been all that excited for things like Conference, but when I decided to do the panel, I really wanted to prepare and get into things. I wanted to maybe provide something constructive — even if I’m not a believer.

    Things didn’t go quite as planned. I wasn’t very articulate to begin with, but even when I was, most comments were critical or “cheap shots”. I guess I kinda quickly reverted to trying to get in a few silly zings.

  31. John Larsen Reply

    Thomas J:

    Thanks for your feedback. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to get more mainstream LDS members to participate in such a discussion. Most faithful Mormons do not feel comfortable engaging in such discussions with individuals who might be critical. Tell you wife that she is welcome to come on in 6 months. The invitational is openly extended to more defenders of the faith to participate.

    For what its worth, about 1/2 of the individuals who participated are still active Mormons and the other half are not. Bridget is a non-Mormon. Obviously, most of the panelists have a very liberal view of the Church.

  32. John Larsen Reply

    Thomas J:

    Thanks for your feedback. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to get more mainstream LDS members to participate in such a discussion. Most faithful Mormons do not feel comfortable engaging in such discussions with individuals who might be critical. Tell you wife that she is welcome to come on in 6 months. The invitational is openly extended to more defenders of the faith to participate.

    For what its worth, about 1/2 of the individuals who participated are still active Mormons and the other half are not. Bridget is a non-Mormon. Obviously, most of the panelists have a very liberal view of the Church.

  33. Thomas J Reply

    John,

    Thanks for the response. I’m surprised that you’ve had so much trouble finding faithful Mormon panelists. I would think that a browse through ldsblogs.org would lead you to countless individuals who feel comfortable with these kinds of discussions. Maybe I overestimate my fellow internet Mormons.

  34. Thomas J Reply

    John,

    Thanks for the response. I’m surprised that you’ve had so much trouble finding faithful Mormon panelists. I would think that a browse through ldsblogs.org would lead you to countless individuals who feel comfortable with these kinds of discussions. Maybe I overestimate my fellow internet Mormons.

  35. Walt Reply

    That was interesting hearing you metion your Grandfather (I think it was) John. I had never heard of anyone having their post-mortem work done for them again, let alone multiple times. This would really irritate me as well. Without crossing any lines here, aren’t there certain aspects of the ceremony that you should only receive once? Seems like this could create confusion at the veil?

  36. Walt Reply

    That was interesting hearing you metion your Grandfather (I think it was) John. I had never heard of anyone having their post-mortem work done for them again, let alone multiple times. This would really irritate me as well. Without crossing any lines here, aren’t there certain aspects of the ceremony that you should only receive once? Seems like this could create confusion at the veil?

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