51b: Interview with Will Bagley part 2

Description: In part 2 of our discussion with Will Bagley, Will describes how he became a historian and his interest in Mormon History. He also gives his perspective on the Mountain Meadows Massacre. Episode 51b Your browser does not support the audio element.
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12 comments on “51b: Interview with Will Bagley part 2”

  1. Swearing Elder Reply

    I enjoyed Will’s perspective, but it felt a little bit like MM 501 (senior seminar) instead of MM 101. If you didn’t know much about the MM already it would be hard to follow all the in’s and out’s of Will’s arguments about what others have written about it.

    That said, I thoroughly enjoyed it.

    One other note: I had the same skepticism as Will when I was young — I wish I had acted on it sooner like he did.

  2. Swearing Elder Reply

    I enjoyed Will’s perspective, but it felt a little bit like MM 501 (senior seminar) instead of MM 101. If you didn’t know much about the MM already it would be hard to follow all the in’s and out’s of Will’s arguments about what others have written about it.

    That said, I thoroughly enjoyed it.

    One other note: I had the same skepticism as Will when I was young — I wish I had acted on it sooner like he did.

  3. Zilpha Reply

    I also enjoyed listening to you, Will. You have a lot of fun stories and a great laugh. You label yourself “agnostic”, while I feel more comfortable with the label “atheist” for myself. But interestingly, from what you said, we believe the same things about the important questions in life, however ignorant we may stand. Thanks for sharing your stories and wisdom.
    And nice work, Tom!

  4. Zilpha Reply

    I also enjoyed listening to you, Will. You have a lot of fun stories and a great laugh. You label yourself “agnostic”, while I feel more comfortable with the label “atheist” for myself. But interestingly, from what you said, we believe the same things about the important questions in life, however ignorant we may stand. Thanks for sharing your stories and wisdom.
    And nice work, Tom!

  5. Alf O'Mega Reply

    Tom, thanks for bringing us Will’s dangerously frank reminiscences.

    I think either you or Will owes us a finished story. Will started talking about an amusing story involving Abner Blackburn teamstering Brigham Young’s oxen, but then there was some kind of cut in the recording and the punch line was left out. Did he just digress into hazardous territory and never finish the story, or was it a mistake in editing, or something else?

  6. Alf O'Mega Reply

    Tom, thanks for bringing us Will’s dangerously frank reminiscences.

    I think either you or Will owes us a finished story. Will started talking about an amusing story involving Abner Blackburn teamstering Brigham Young’s oxen, but then there was some kind of cut in the recording and the punch line was left out. Did he just digress into hazardous territory and never finish the story, or was it a mistake in editing, or something else?

  7. Tom Perry Reply

    SE,

    I agree, it was more of a MMM 501 rather than an introductory discussion. You think we should do a MMM for dummies? Interesting.

    Thanks for the kind words Zilpha.

    Alf,

    If I remember right during the BY oxen story, one of two things happened. Either my phone rang, or we paused for a bathroom break. Both happened during the interview, I just can’t remember which one happened where. We just didn’t pick up right where we left off when we returned. My apologies.

  8. Tom Perry Reply

    SE,

    I agree, it was more of a MMM 501 rather than an introductory discussion. You think we should do a MMM for dummies? Interesting.

    Thanks for the kind words Zilpha.

    Alf,

    If I remember right during the BY oxen story, one of two things happened. Either my phone rang, or we paused for a bathroom break. Both happened during the interview, I just can’t remember which one happened where. We just didn’t pick up right where we left off when we returned. My apologies.

  9. Alf O'Mega Reply

    Here’s one author’s version of the story that Will was probably going to tell:

    “In the spring of 1846, when the westward migration began, Abner was assigned to drive one of Brigham’s wagons. He was given an untrained team of oxen and recounted that he was ‘able to keep them in the road part of the time, but only when he was crossing it.’ In one of his first efforts to drive the stubborn creatures, he ran his wagon against Brigham’s wagon and tore off the whole stern end, then capped that mishap the next day when the unruly oxen upset the entire wagon” (Evelyn D. Gibson, _Blackburn and Allied Descendants of John Blackburn, Sr., Who Came from Ireland to Pennsylvania in 1736_ [Lincoln, Neb.: Arbor Printing Company, 1978], 270; available online at http://www.blackburn-tree.org/GibsonBook.pdf).

  10. Alf O'Mega Reply

    Here’s one author’s version of the story that Will was probably going to tell:

    “In the spring of 1846, when the westward migration began, Abner was assigned to drive one of Brigham’s wagons. He was given an untrained team of oxen and recounted that he was ‘able to keep them in the road part of the time, but only when he was crossing it.’ In one of his first efforts to drive the stubborn creatures, he ran his wagon against Brigham’s wagon and tore off the whole stern end, then capped that mishap the next day when the unruly oxen upset the entire wagon” (Evelyn D. Gibson, _Blackburn and Allied Descendants of John Blackburn, Sr., Who Came from Ireland to Pennsylvania in 1736_ [Lincoln, Neb.: Arbor Printing Company, 1978], 270; available online at http://www.blackburn-tree.org/GibsonBook.pdf).

  11. DDR Reply

    I just finaly finished the part 2. THis was a great podcast. I read Blood of the Prophets and like you Tom it made me very sad.

    I tend to agree with Will and Juanita. The teachings of the time helped the people that participated in this sad event justify what they where doing. Those teachings came from church leadership at the top. Just like the teachings do today.

    Saying that young wasn’t involved in this is like saying Hitler had no hand in the Holocaust it was those pesky soldiers that did it all. The true tradgedy is that the men that did this for what they felt was right had to carry this around their entire lives.

    I agree with Will the church needs to apologize and come clean. People participate in mormonism for many different reasons. I have found many people that just don’t care about this kind of stuff. To me I don’t get that but to each their own. I still think honesty and truth should be told and adults can make their own decisions. When things are hidden an documents destroyed. It is pretty telling what the truth is. Will could share my campfire anytime. You seems like a really geniune person.

  12. DDR Reply

    I just finaly finished the part 2. THis was a great podcast. I read Blood of the Prophets and like you Tom it made me very sad.

    I tend to agree with Will and Juanita. The teachings of the time helped the people that participated in this sad event justify what they where doing. Those teachings came from church leadership at the top. Just like the teachings do today.

    Saying that young wasn’t involved in this is like saying Hitler had no hand in the Holocaust it was those pesky soldiers that did it all. The true tradgedy is that the men that did this for what they felt was right had to carry this around their entire lives.

    I agree with Will the church needs to apologize and come clean. People participate in mormonism for many different reasons. I have found many people that just don’t care about this kind of stuff. To me I don’t get that but to each their own. I still think honesty and truth should be told and adults can make their own decisions. When things are hidden an documents destroyed. It is pretty telling what the truth is. Will could share my campfire anytime. You seems like a really geniune person.

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