Episode 56b: The Lost 10 Tribes Part 2

John is joined by Zilpha, Tom, Mike and Glenn to discuss the Lost 10 Tribes in Mormon theology.

The Ten Lost Tribes: A World History

voyagehollowearth.com

Episode 56a

44 comments on “Episode 56b: The Lost 10 Tribes Part 2”

  1. Rich Rasmussen Reply

    Fun discussion guys. I don’t usually like to provide evidence for crazy doctrinal theories, but here is a fun one reguarding Kolobian orbits and an eventual return to a celestial orbit…which may include a return of intergalactic tribes (RE: the 33minute mark of this episode). I am speaking of the eventual collision of our galaxy (milky way) with the andromeda galaxy.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andromeda%E2%80%93Milky_Way_collision

  2. Rich Rasmussen Reply

    Fun discussion guys. I don’t usually like to provide evidence for crazy doctrinal theories, but here is a fun one reguarding Kolobian orbits and an eventual return to a celestial orbit…which may include a return of intergalactic tribes (RE: the 33minute mark of this episode). I am speaking of the eventual collision of our galaxy (milky way) with the andromeda galaxy.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andromeda%E2%80%93Milky_Way_collision

  3. Patrick Reply

    Rich,

    so…you’re saying that we have some time to clean the house a bit before the guests arrive.

  4. Patrick Reply

    Rich,

    so…you’re saying that we have some time to clean the house a bit before the guests arrive.

  5. Happy Lost Sheep Reply

    Isn’t most of the narrative of the Book of Mormon along these lines of establishing America’s role as the gathering place for the lost tribes of Israel? I mean “another testament of Jesus Christ” doesn’t fit when you closely examine the content. The subtitle of the Book of Mormon should say: “Cultural Learnings for Make Benefit Glorious Zion in America”

  6. Happy Lost Sheep Reply

    Isn’t most of the narrative of the Book of Mormon along these lines of establishing America’s role as the gathering place for the lost tribes of Israel? I mean “another testament of Jesus Christ” doesn’t fit when you closely examine the content. The subtitle of the Book of Mormon should say: “Cultural Learnings for Make Benefit Glorious Zion in America”

  7. Swearing Elder Reply

    This session helped me better understand the previous interview. It’s amazing how mythology can be used to completely create movements and identities.

    Memo to Mike: Take a chill pill. Your opinion just happens not to be an opinion like everyone else, but the “absolute truth”? Dude, seriously. Step back and listen to yourself.

    Oh, and LOL @ Happy Lost Sheep. I love your new subtitle for the B of M.

  8. Swearing Elder Reply

    This session helped me better understand the previous interview. It’s amazing how mythology can be used to completely create movements and identities.

    Memo to Mike: Take a chill pill. Your opinion just happens not to be an opinion like everyone else, but the “absolute truth”? Dude, seriously. Step back and listen to yourself.

    Oh, and LOL @ Happy Lost Sheep. I love your new subtitle for the B of M.

  9. Gunnar R. Reply

    I enjoyed the two episodes about the lost 10 tribes. Dr. Benite’s comments clarified for me more than ever how Joseph Smith’s ideas were almost certainly inspired in large part by speculations and theories about the lost tribes and Israelite connection with indigneous Native Americans that had already been rather popular (especially among descendants of British colonists in New England) for quite a while before Joseph Smith “translated” the Golden Plates. There can be little reasonable doubt that Joseph Smith was at least aware of these ideas that were floating around, if not highly familiar with them.

    As for the lost tribes supposed location near the North Pole, I wonder how many of these people are employed by Santa Claus? Is Santa himself one of them? What about Mrs. Santa Claus?

  10. Gunnar R. Reply

    I enjoyed the two episodes about the lost 10 tribes. Dr. Benite’s comments clarified for me more than ever how Joseph Smith’s ideas were almost certainly inspired in large part by speculations and theories about the lost tribes and Israelite connection with indigneous Native Americans that had already been rather popular (especially among descendants of British colonists in New England) for quite a while before Joseph Smith “translated” the Golden Plates. There can be little reasonable doubt that Joseph Smith was at least aware of these ideas that were floating around, if not highly familiar with them.

    As for the lost tribes supposed location near the North Pole, I wonder how many of these people are employed by Santa Claus? Is Santa himself one of them? What about Mrs. Santa Claus?

  11. NightAvatar Reply

    I really loved this two-part podcast! I think it may be my favorite yet. And, as strange is this may sound, I really liked Mike in this! Weird.

    Mike was pretty calm and together. It was funny when John said, “So normally we poke fun at Mike for believing weird things and now we’re poking fun at him because he doesn’t?” Good point.

    It was cool to hear that Tom and Glenn are both temple recommend holders, and can yet see this whole topic as something much larger than your average faithful member who thinks the Church has all the answers.

  12. NightAvatar Reply

    I really loved this two-part podcast! I think it may be my favorite yet. And, as strange is this may sound, I really liked Mike in this! Weird.

    Mike was pretty calm and together. It was funny when John said, “So normally we poke fun at Mike for believing weird things and now we’re poking fun at him because he doesn’t?” Good point.

    It was cool to hear that Tom and Glenn are both temple recommend holders, and can yet see this whole topic as something much larger than your average faithful member who thinks the Church has all the answers.

  13. Me_MyZelph_And_I Reply

    Mike – you are certifiable! Do you ever go back and listen to yourself on the podcasts?

  14. Me_MyZelph_And_I Reply

    Mike – you are certifiable! Do you ever go back and listen to yourself on the podcasts?

  15. Mister IT Reply

    Another fine podcast! I learned a TON – thank you. I even took the time to look up “Ten Lost Tribes” in the Encyclopaedia Judaica and I thought that this was a good summation:

    “Various theories, one more farfetched than the other, have been adduced on the flimsiest of evidence, to identify different peoples with the ten lost tribes. There is hardly a people, from the Japanese to British, and from the Red Indians to the Afghans, who have not been suggested, and hardly a place, among them Africa, India, China, Persia, Kurdistan, Causcasia, the U.S., and Great Britain.”
    (Encyclopaedia Judaica, Second Edition, Volume 19, p. 640)

    And Mike you really are certifiable – sorry man, I really like you, but your reasoning is often so bizarre, convoluted and irrational that it’s a little concerning!

    You want to try letting the evidence lead to the conclusion – rather than vice-versa – sometime and see how much easier (and healthier) that is on the ol’ noggin sometime!

  16. Mister IT Reply

    Another fine podcast! I learned a TON – thank you. I even took the time to look up “Ten Lost Tribes” in the Encyclopaedia Judaica and I thought that this was a good summation:

    “Various theories, one more farfetched than the other, have been adduced on the flimsiest of evidence, to identify different peoples with the ten lost tribes. There is hardly a people, from the Japanese to British, and from the Red Indians to the Afghans, who have not been suggested, and hardly a place, among them Africa, India, China, Persia, Kurdistan, Causcasia, the U.S., and Great Britain.”
    (Encyclopaedia Judaica, Second Edition, Volume 19, p. 640)

    And Mike you really are certifiable – sorry man, I really like you, but your reasoning is often so bizarre, convoluted and irrational that it’s a little concerning!

    You want to try letting the evidence lead to the conclusion – rather than vice-versa – sometime and see how much easier (and healthier) that is on the ol’ noggin sometime!

  17. Allen Reply

    The theory of the Lost 10 tribes living in the center of the earth reminded me of two stories I read years ago. Both are a little far fetched but nevertheless interesting.

    1. The first is a book called “The Smoky God”. It was authored by Willis George Emerson in 1908 and is an 1820 account of Norwegian Sailor named Olaf Jansen. It explains how he sailed his sloop through an entrance to the inner earth at the North Pole. He spent two years among a 12 foot race of people he found there and whose world was lite by a “smoky” central sun. The book is out of print, however, it can be read online at http://www.ourhollowearth.com/SGContents.htm

    2. The second is Admiral Richard E. Byrd’s Secret Diary about his 1947 expedition to the North Pole. During a February 2nd flight near the North Pole Byrd’s plane was taken over by two flying saucers and ushered into the inner earth. Byrd met with the leader of that inner civilization and Byrd was requested to deliver a message back to the president of the United States. See http://www.jimnicholsufo.com/22-admiral-byrds-secret-diary/

  18. Allen Reply

    The theory of the Lost 10 tribes living in the center of the earth reminded me of two stories I read years ago. Both are a little far fetched but nevertheless interesting.

    1. The first is a book called “The Smoky God”. It was authored by Willis George Emerson in 1908 and is an 1820 account of Norwegian Sailor named Olaf Jansen. It explains how he sailed his sloop through an entrance to the inner earth at the North Pole. He spent two years among a 12 foot race of people he found there and whose world was lite by a “smoky” central sun. The book is out of print, however, it can be read online at http://www.ourhollowearth.com/SGContents.htm

    2. The second is Admiral Richard E. Byrd’s Secret Diary about his 1947 expedition to the North Pole. During a February 2nd flight near the North Pole Byrd’s plane was taken over by two flying saucers and ushered into the inner earth. Byrd met with the leader of that inner civilization and Byrd was requested to deliver a message back to the president of the United States. See http://www.jimnicholsufo.com/22-admiral-byrds-secret-diary/

  19. Mike Tannehill Reply

    People have said, in one way or another, the following:

    “And Mike you really are certifiable – sorry man, I really like you, but your reasoning is often so bizarre, convoluted and irrational that it’s a little concerning!”

    Out of curiosity, when did I exhibit this behavior?

    • Mister IT Reply

      >Out of curiosity, when did I exhibit this behavior?<

      I can understand your confusion. I've been there myself.

      This behavior manifests itself when the panel presents a cohesive body of evidence that clearly leads to a stance different than what might be the LdS Church's official and you spin off into dogma – which Mirriam Webster defines as, "…the expression of opinions very strongly or positively as if they were facts.", or if you prefer, "a religious doctrine that is proclaimed as true without proof".

      And as one analyst has noted, "As a mental-health professional, I'd say that if faith, if it is not based upon reality, is the basis of psychosis."
      (see http://mormonchapbook.blogspot.com/2010/05/mormon-test-for-truth.html )

      Hence our concern.

  20. Mike Tannehill Reply

    People have said, in one way or another, the following:

    “And Mike you really are certifiable – sorry man, I really like you, but your reasoning is often so bizarre, convoluted and irrational that it’s a little concerning!”

    Out of curiosity, when did I exhibit this behavior?

    • Mister IT Reply

      >Out of curiosity, when did I exhibit this behavior?<

      I can understand your confusion. I've been there myself.

      This behavior manifests itself when the panel presents a cohesive body of evidence that clearly leads to a stance different than what might be the LdS Church's official and you spin off into dogma – which Mirriam Webster defines as, "…the expression of opinions very strongly or positively as if they were facts.", or if you prefer, "a religious doctrine that is proclaimed as true without proof".

      And as one analyst has noted, "As a mental-health professional, I'd say that if faith, if it is not based upon reality, is the basis of psychosis."
      (see http://mormonchapbook.blogspot.com/2010/05/mormon-test-for-truth.html )

      Hence our concern.

  21. Sam Andy Reply

    The most liberating and empowering part of this podcast (for me) was Glenn and John telling Mike, “That doesn’t make sense!” Are we finally reaching a point where average, intelligent faithful members / liberal members / disaffected members can say without fear that something in Mormonism doesn’t make sense? Maybe not in the Chapel, but at least here on the Internet, there is finally a measure of common sense being applied to some of the wackiness of Mormonism.

  22. Sam Andy Reply

    The most liberating and empowering part of this podcast (for me) was Glenn and John telling Mike, “That doesn’t make sense!” Are we finally reaching a point where average, intelligent faithful members / liberal members / disaffected members can say without fear that something in Mormonism doesn’t make sense? Maybe not in the Chapel, but at least here on the Internet, there is finally a measure of common sense being applied to some of the wackiness of Mormonism.

  23. Mister IT Reply

    BTW, I posed a couple of questions on Answerbag.com regarding this issue and got back some interesting (not to mention some snarky) responses.

    However, one answer contained a science-based article on this topic that I wanted to pass along to my Mormon Expression friends who might be interested in a more naturalistic explanation:

    http://jewsandjoes.com/the-10-lost-tribes-of-israel.html

  24. Mister IT Reply

    BTW, I posed a couple of questions on Answerbag.com regarding this issue and got back some interesting (not to mention some snarky) responses.

    However, one answer contained a science-based article on this topic that I wanted to pass along to my Mormon Expression friends who might be interested in a more naturalistic explanation:

    http://jewsandjoes.com/the-10-lost-tribes-of-israel.html

  25. ff42 Reply

    The church could have attempted restitution for the priesthood ban by immediately 1) paying all the travel costs to Blacks to attend the temple and 2) doing the temple work (exclusively) for all Black members who had died.

  26. Dadsprimalscream Reply

    I love Rich’s essay and Bob’s commentary… a great blog technique. I hope you keep it up.

    Could you imagine being in a worthiness interview with the bishop and when asked about your faithfulness to the commandments replying with, “Some things that are true are not very useful. Anything that destroys your faith in me, Bishop, should be avoided in our discussions.”

  27. jen Reply

    I don’t see the church ever doing this, but I think I could be a member of the institution that WOULD apologize for the wrong they’ve done. They wouldn’t have as many blind followers, but it would be an organization that might be worth being part of…

    Thanks for your thoughts on this. Helps me a lot.

  28. cobble26 Reply

    Please send Mike on a mission and keep him off the podcasts.  I have no interest in listening to his absurd attempts to defend absurd myths and folklore such as the lost 10 tribes by his spouting of “gospel doctrine” as absolute truth.  I’ve made a resolution that I will not listen to any more podcasts in which Mike is on the panel.  It’s bad for my blood pressure and sanity.

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