Episode 79a: Mormon Stories and Mormon Expression Part 1

2010 Live Reception and Recording

In this episode John Dehlin of Mormon Stories and John Larsen chat and take caller questions.

Find Mormon Stories at: http://mormonstories.org/

Episode 79a

48 comments on “Episode 79a: Mormon Stories and Mormon Expression Part 1”

  1. Richard of Norway Reply

    I’m getting a 404 error again on this one.

    I’m not a big fan of John Dehlin but I’ll give this one a shot (once the error is fixed) and hopefully will gain a new appreciation for the man. 🙂

  2. Richard of Norway Reply

    I’m getting a 404 error again on this one.

    I’m not a big fan of John Dehlin but I’ll give this one a shot (once the error is fixed) and hopefully will gain a new appreciation for the man. 🙂

  3. Swearing Elder Reply

    He does this on certain occasions because he wants to up the comment count on the episode. 🙂

    And you should screen your callers better on your live shows. 😉

  4. Swearing Elder Reply

    He does this on certain occasions because he wants to up the comment count on the episode. 🙂

    And you should screen your callers better on your live shows. 😉

  5. Kari Reply

    Was the chat archived somewhere for review? I’d love to read the comments as I listen to the podcast.

    • Richard Reply

      Hi Kari. The chat system was archived but it would be hard to follow along since we had to edit out many parts because of technically difficulties and the chat being straight up ASCII text, etc. Next time we plan on recording a video of the chat window along with the audio so you can following along later. This was a first run so we learned many things in the process.

      -Richard

    • Swearing Elder Reply

      It was fun to follow along at the time. One of the Johns (why does that sound bad?) would say something and you’d see the chat light up: “NOOOOOOOO!” or “Hell yessssss!!!”

  6. Kari Reply

    Was the chat archived somewhere for review? I’d love to read the comments as I listen to the podcast.

    • Richard Reply

      Hi Kari. The chat system was archived but it would be hard to follow along since we had to edit out many parts because of technically difficulties and the chat being straight up ASCII text, etc. Next time we plan on recording a video of the chat window along with the audio so you can following along later. This was a first run so we learned many things in the process.

      -Richard

    • Swearing Elder Reply

      It was fun to follow along at the time. One of the Johns (why does that sound bad?) would say something and you’d see the chat light up: “NOOOOOOOO!” or “Hell yessssss!!!”

  7. Mike Tannehill Reply

    Man Dehlin.. I stir up one little heated conversation on your facebook page and suddenly I’m “mean to you”. lol

    • Happy Lost Sheep Reply

      I really appreciate having Mike on the Mormon Expression podcast. I think he is an accurate representative of the believing Mormon, and it wouldn’t be as interesting to have someone with less orthodox views on the show. I agree with John Larsen that Mike is unique because most believing members wouldn’t participate in a forum like this, and for that he has my respect.

      • Richard of Norway Reply

        I second that. Mike has my respect. He’s got balls of steel and a good heart. I really love the guy.

        I only wish he could see things a little more realistically or nuanced, less black and white. But then again, if he did I guess he wouldn’t be Mike.

      • Mr. IT Reply

        Ditto. Even though I grind my molars to dust whenever Mike gets on his TBM soapbox and starts spewing dogma (that doctrine of names stuff has GOT to go!) I think that he adds a needed voice to Mormon Expression.

        The only voice that I wish was also included was that of a knowledgeable outsider like Bridget or Chris Smith to give the NeverMo “outside looking in” perspective.

        But, of course, that’s just one man’s opinion. Nothing more.

    • Mr. IT Reply

      Mike, I was unfriended by John due to a firestorm that I kicked up on his Facebook page. After we sorted it out afterwards I better understood the fine line that John must walk.

      I think that we need to be sensitive to this as well as the courageous stand that John is taking regarding some key things in the Mormon Church that, frankly, need to be addressed and changed.

      John and I agreed that it was better, due to the nature of the work that I do, that we remain unfriended since just my presence there could stir up unwanted attention for both of us. And should I ever open my mouth and speak my mind . . . well . . .

      In the end I realized that John and I walk the fine line: He gets bashed by both TBMs and Anti’s for his middle-of-the-road stance and so do I. Realizing that just made me respect and like him and his work that much more.

      All this to say: Go easy on John dude! He’s good people even though he’s walking a path that’s easily misunderstood.

      And frankly Mike, sometimes you can come across as a little mean spirited by just dogmatically holding to your “iron rod” stances. To LdS outsiders they seem extreme and harsh, to LdS insiders they seem righteous and just.

      I don’t you don’t see this but it’s there Bro!

      And just like John I understand and respect why you do what you do even though I will continue to disagree with you more than I agree with you.

      😉

      Later mate!

  8. Mike Tannehill Reply

    Man Dehlin.. I stir up one little heated conversation on your facebook page and suddenly I’m “mean to you”. lol

    • Happy Lost Sheep Reply

      I really appreciate having Mike on the Mormon Expression podcast. I think he is an accurate representative of the believing Mormon, and it wouldn’t be as interesting to have someone with less orthodox views on the show. I agree with John Larsen that Mike is unique because most believing members wouldn’t participate in a forum like this, and for that he has my respect.

      • Richard of Norway Reply

        I second that. Mike has my respect. He’s got balls of steel and a good heart. I really love the guy.

        I only wish he could see things a little more realistically or nuanced, less black and white. But then again, if he did I guess he wouldn’t be Mike.

      • Mr. IT Reply

        Ditto. Even though I grind my molars to dust whenever Mike gets on his TBM soapbox and starts spewing dogma (that doctrine of names stuff has GOT to go!) I think that he adds a needed voice to Mormon Expression.

        The only voice that I wish was also included was that of a knowledgeable outsider like Bridget or Chris Smith to give the NeverMo “outside looking in” perspective.

        But, of course, that’s just one man’s opinion. Nothing more.

    • Mr. IT Reply

      Mike, I was unfriended by John due to a firestorm that I kicked up on his Facebook page. After we sorted it out afterwards I better understood the fine line that John must walk.

      I think that we need to be sensitive to this as well as the courageous stand that John is taking regarding some key things in the Mormon Church that, frankly, need to be addressed and changed.

      John and I agreed that it was better, due to the nature of the work that I do, that we remain unfriended since just my presence there could stir up unwanted attention for both of us. And should I ever open my mouth and speak my mind . . . well . . .

      In the end I realized that John and I walk the fine line: He gets bashed by both TBMs and Anti’s for his middle-of-the-road stance and so do I. Realizing that just made me respect and like him and his work that much more.

      All this to say: Go easy on John dude! He’s good people even though he’s walking a path that’s easily misunderstood.

      And frankly Mike, sometimes you can come across as a little mean spirited by just dogmatically holding to your “iron rod” stances. To LdS outsiders they seem extreme and harsh, to LdS insiders they seem righteous and just.

      I don’t you don’t see this but it’s there Bro!

      And just like John I understand and respect why you do what you do even though I will continue to disagree with you more than I agree with you.

      😉

      Later mate!

  9. Gail F. Bartholomew Reply

    Last Sunday I attended the local Community of Christ Church. For me it felt I think too culturally LDS. Both pod casts have done some very interesting work on the history of the Community of Christ. They as a church are progressive in all the ways I want the Salt Lake church to be progressive. The problem was I was just a board attending as I was at the Salt Lake Church. For me I don’t think I really love the culture. I think I love the people. I think even when I was active in the church I found the culture irritating. But the fact is I am Mormon and the Mormon people are my people. I miss them, but going to the church put’s me to sleep. Now on the other hand I have attended my local Unitarian Universilist church. I have found it very moving. I get along with the people there. Politically, philosophically, and even theologically I think I am more comfortable with them than the Mormons, but I will never join them because I don’t feel I am a Unitarian I am way to Mormon.

  10. Gail F. Bartholomew Reply

    Last Sunday I attended the local Community of Christ Church. For me it felt I think too culturally LDS. Both pod casts have done some very interesting work on the history of the Community of Christ. They as a church are progressive in all the ways I want the Salt Lake church to be progressive. The problem was I was just a board attending as I was at the Salt Lake Church. For me I don’t think I really love the culture. I think I love the people. I think even when I was active in the church I found the culture irritating. But the fact is I am Mormon and the Mormon people are my people. I miss them, but going to the church put’s me to sleep. Now on the other hand I have attended my local Unitarian Universilist church. I have found it very moving. I get along with the people there. Politically, philosophically, and even theologically I think I am more comfortable with them than the Mormons, but I will never join them because I don’t feel I am a Unitarian I am way to Mormon.

  11. Joseph Reply

    For the record, neither Mormon Stories nor Mormon Expression caused my “apostasy,” but both helped me find positive ways of dealing with the incredible amount of negative energy that was released when I discovered the “untrue-ness” of the LDS church for myself.

  12. Joseph Reply

    For the record, neither Mormon Stories nor Mormon Expression caused my “apostasy,” but both helped me find positive ways of dealing with the incredible amount of negative energy that was released when I discovered the “untrue-ness” of the LDS church for myself.

  13. Rebecca Reply

    Excellent Podcast guys!

    I’m literally laughing out loud! apologists are pu**ies & when they sober up! I know you’ve been dying to say that for years! 😉

  14. Rebecca Reply

    Excellent Podcast guys!

    I’m literally laughing out loud! apologists are pu**ies & when they sober up! I know you’ve been dying to say that for years! 😉

  15. Polly Anna Reply

    I’m a female and I was going to do an essay, but I got tied up with things going on in a my personal life an never got to finish it. I’d be willing to be on the podcast, but I don’t feel qualified.

  16. Polly Anna Reply

    I’m a female and I was going to do an essay, but I got tied up with things going on in a my personal life an never got to finish it. I’d be willing to be on the podcast, but I don’t feel qualified.

  17. Joe Geisner Reply

    Sorry for taking so long to comment.

    Another great show. Lots of fun listening to that banter. 🙂

    At 1:03:39, John Larsen, you mention that “after September 6” a group Sunstone apostates and liberals started a ward in SLC to capture the culture and elements of the Mormon Church.

    I have never heard of this. Maybe you could comment?

    As far as I know, none of the people who were excommunicated or disfellowshiped in September 1993 created or desired to create a church. Rumor was that Paul Toscano “would create” his own church. A very high Church official seems to have started this rumor. It was in fact only a rumor and nothing more.

  18. Joe Geisner Reply

    Sorry for taking so long to comment.

    Another great show. Lots of fun listening to that banter. 🙂

    At 1:03:39, John Larsen, you mention that “after September 6” a group Sunstone apostates and liberals started a ward in SLC to capture the culture and elements of the Mormon Church.

    I have never heard of this. Maybe you could comment?

    As far as I know, none of the people who were excommunicated or disfellowshiped in September 1993 created or desired to create a church. Rumor was that Paul Toscano “would create” his own church. A very high Church official seems to have started this rumor. It was in fact only a rumor and nothing more.

  19. Fred W. Anson Reply

    Sorry Mike but your “so unimpeachably attested” statement flies in the face of the DNA evidence (oh that pesky DNA evidence again – it’s always messing good folklore up isn’t it!)

    The DNA evidence shows that the Scots came primarily from two migration patterns: 
    Haplogroup M343 migrated to the British Isles and then into Scotland from the European mainland – primarily southern France after the Northern Ice sheet receeded. I have no doubt that many Scot is horrified that they’re of French descent (well at least I, a member of the McPherson clan am!) 

    Now Haplogroup M253 did migrate from the Iberian Pennisula however, there is NO evidence of linkage of this DNA thread to the Semitic DNA lines of the Middle East. 

    So the assertions of “King Robert the Bruce and the nobles of the day” may be an interesting historical footnote but modern DNA evidence discredits their claims of a Middle Eastern origin. 

    Sorry Mike. 

    Primary Source for above: 
    https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/lan/en/atlas.html

  20. Elder Vader Reply

    Good call Tierza.  About 10 years back, in what is a longer story than is appropriate for a comment like this, I decided that I wasn’t going to seek for revelation, I would thoughtfully make choices, then ask for confirmation from God.  So rather than ‘Heavenly Father, what should I do?’ it was more like: 

    “HF, I need a job, this one requires that I work on Sundays, and I know that is technically against the 10 commandments, but my family needs to pay their bills, so I’m going with it.  Please reveal to me if that’s a problem for you.  In the name of Jesus Christ Amen.” 

    What was the result?  I did a lot less stuff that could be classified as nutty, and did more stuff that made sense. 

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