Episode 79b: Mormon Stories and Mormon Expression Part 2

2010 Live Reception and Recording

In this episode John Dehlin of Mormon Stories and John Larsen chat and take caller questions.

Find Mormon Stories at: http://mormonstories.org/

Episode 79b

50 comments on “Episode 79b: Mormon Stories and Mormon Expression Part 2”

  1. Happy Lost Sheep Reply

    Wow I’m pretty sure that dude that called in about 9:30 was one of the internet Danites! I enjoyed listening to Larsen pwn the guy lol.

    My favorite line of the podcast was: “you strip away the truth claims of the LDS church and what do you have?” (Trevor): “Funeral Potatoes” too funny.

    Both Mormon Expression and Mormon Stories have been a huge support for me as I dealt with my faith crisis and eventually my decision to leave the church. Thanks to John Larsen and John Dehlin for their time and efforts producing their podcasts. I think if I stay connected to the Mormon world in any way it will be through these podcasts.

    Cheers!

  2. Happy Lost Sheep Reply

    Wow I’m pretty sure that dude that called in about 9:30 was one of the internet Danites! I enjoyed listening to Larsen pwn the guy lol.

    My favorite line of the podcast was: “you strip away the truth claims of the LDS church and what do you have?” (Trevor): “Funeral Potatoes” too funny.

    Both Mormon Expression and Mormon Stories have been a huge support for me as I dealt with my faith crisis and eventually my decision to leave the church. Thanks to John Larsen and John Dehlin for their time and efforts producing their podcasts. I think if I stay connected to the Mormon world in any way it will be through these podcasts.

    Cheers!

  3. George Miller Reply

    At one point there was a suggestion to have a discussion about the Spaulding/Rigdon theory. I think it would be amazing to have an “Dummies Guide” episode that dealt with this subject.

  4. George Miller Reply

    At one point there was a suggestion to have a discussion about the Spaulding/Rigdon theory. I think it would be amazing to have an “Dummies Guide” episode that dealt with this subject.

  5. DuzTruthMatter Reply

    This was a fantastic podcast. Both of you have been very instrumental in helping me stay sane in the aftermath of the initial letdown of the mormon church not being what it claimed. Before these podcasts, I was on an island with TBM wife, brothers and sisters.

    I look forward to Tuesdays every week for ME and whenever MS is able to post a new interview. Btw, I love the 5 hour interviews John D. does, it gives a chance to get into greater detail and pass the time at work.

    Thank you both again for all that you do. It’s good to know that you two can get along. Don’t really see what Nyal’s problem is with MS.

    • Richard of Norway Reply

      I think Nyal said (in the 10-tribes after-discussion podcast) that his main problem with MS was John D’s former “Stay LDS” stance. That John formerly wanted people to stay in the church, no matter if it’s true or not. Dehlin’s new stance on the subject (explained in the beginning of part 1, podcast 79a) is much better (in my opinion) and has won me as a new Dehlin fan. Nyal will probably come around.

      Although I now respect Dehlin and his work, I am still not a MS convert. I have never listened to one of his podcasts (I agree with John Larsen: they’re too damn long!) but I did watch a few minutes of his interview with one of my Mormon heroes: Carol Lynn Pearson. I have really liked her ever since I first saw “My Turn On Earth” as a wee lad. I believe that was in southern Arizona, 1978.

      • Glenn Reply

        Nyal’s comment was on the 1-year anniversary episode, not the 10-tribes after-discussion. Nyal wasn’t on that one. You must be confusing him with Mike. Again. 😉

      • Zilpha Reply

        I agree with you, Richard, about the Carol Lynn Pearson thing. I was a fan of “My Turn On Earth” as well. She’s proven herself to be very talented and classy. And I couldn’t be more pleased with her determination to help the Mormon community to become more empathetic and understanding about the struggles of gays in the church. I think she’s really done a lot of good in this area. Although J.D.’s interview with her was exceedingly (B of M vocab.) long, I thoroughly enjoyed it. 🙂

  6. DuzTruthMatter Reply

    This was a fantastic podcast. Both of you have been very instrumental in helping me stay sane in the aftermath of the initial letdown of the mormon church not being what it claimed. Before these podcasts, I was on an island with TBM wife, brothers and sisters.

    I look forward to Tuesdays every week for ME and whenever MS is able to post a new interview. Btw, I love the 5 hour interviews John D. does, it gives a chance to get into greater detail and pass the time at work.

    Thank you both again for all that you do. It’s good to know that you two can get along. Don’t really see what Nyal’s problem is with MS.

    • Richard of Norway Reply

      I think Nyal said (in the 10-tribes after-discussion podcast) that his main problem with MS was John D’s former “Stay LDS” stance. That John formerly wanted people to stay in the church, no matter if it’s true or not. Dehlin’s new stance on the subject (explained in the beginning of part 1, podcast 79a) is much better (in my opinion) and has won me as a new Dehlin fan. Nyal will probably come around.

      Although I now respect Dehlin and his work, I am still not a MS convert. I have never listened to one of his podcasts (I agree with John Larsen: they’re too damn long!) but I did watch a few minutes of his interview with one of my Mormon heroes: Carol Lynn Pearson. I have really liked her ever since I first saw “My Turn On Earth” as a wee lad. I believe that was in southern Arizona, 1978.

      • Glenn Reply

        Nyal’s comment was on the 1-year anniversary episode, not the 10-tribes after-discussion. Nyal wasn’t on that one. You must be confusing him with Mike. Again. 😉

      • Zilpha Reply

        I agree with you, Richard, about the Carol Lynn Pearson thing. I was a fan of “My Turn On Earth” as well. She’s proven herself to be very talented and classy. And I couldn’t be more pleased with her determination to help the Mormon community to become more empathetic and understanding about the struggles of gays in the church. I think she’s really done a lot of good in this area. Although J.D.’s interview with her was exceedingly (B of M vocab.) long, I thoroughly enjoyed it. 🙂

  7. Swearing Elder Reply

    First, kudos to John D. for standing up to Joel. You handled that so wonderfully. And, I’m with John L. with what he said that same guy: If you’re going to stand on a platform of “it’s all true” then you’re doomed. It’s the proverbial Jello, nail, and a wall.

    Now that I’ve complimented John D. (and I sincerely mean it — he schooled Joel), let me pile on just a bit. When he brought Mormon Stories back I posted the following critique:

    …I will provide my two cents worth of constructive criticism. For the most part I think the interviews could be contained within about an hour’s time. What’s the old saying? “I wrote long because I didn’t have time to write short.” Some of those that extend two or three hours get a bit tiresome. I realize this is more work for John both in pre-interview production work (pre-interviews, background reading on the interviewee, etc.) and post-production work (editing), but I think it would be well worth the effort. (Ironically, my favorite set of interviews [Grant Palmer] span four episodes so who am I to say he should try to contain each to about an hour?)

  8. Swearing Elder Reply

    First, kudos to John D. for standing up to Joel. You handled that so wonderfully. And, I’m with John L. with what he said that same guy: If you’re going to stand on a platform of “it’s all true” then you’re doomed. It’s the proverbial Jello, nail, and a wall.

    Now that I’ve complimented John D. (and I sincerely mean it — he schooled Joel), let me pile on just a bit. When he brought Mormon Stories back I posted the following critique:

    …I will provide my two cents worth of constructive criticism. For the most part I think the interviews could be contained within about an hour’s time. What’s the old saying? “I wrote long because I didn’t have time to write short.” Some of those that extend two or three hours get a bit tiresome. I realize this is more work for John both in pre-interview production work (pre-interviews, background reading on the interviewee, etc.) and post-production work (editing), but I think it would be well worth the effort. (Ironically, my favorite set of interviews [Grant Palmer] span four episodes so who am I to say he should try to contain each to about an hour?)

  9. RKD Reply

    Great podcast! Both John D. and John L. have been my salvation in my faith crisis as I too have been and still am surrounded by TBM family members who are all brainwashed to be convinced I am crazy and going down the road to ruin. You guys are awesome and it was really fun to hear your conversation. So glad you can work together. And I personally love John D’s multiple-part interviews and the chance they give us to really get into some deeper conversation. Good grief folks, you don’t have to listen to the whole thing if you don’t want to. And Zilpha, please keep participating. You add a wonderful perspective that is needed and enjoyed very much.

  10. RKD Reply

    Great podcast! Both John D. and John L. have been my salvation in my faith crisis as I too have been and still am surrounded by TBM family members who are all brainwashed to be convinced I am crazy and going down the road to ruin. You guys are awesome and it was really fun to hear your conversation. So glad you can work together. And I personally love John D’s multiple-part interviews and the chance they give us to really get into some deeper conversation. Good grief folks, you don’t have to listen to the whole thing if you don’t want to. And Zilpha, please keep participating. You add a wonderful perspective that is needed and enjoyed very much.

  11. James Hafen Reply

    Enjoyed this more than I thought I would. I hope you do it again. I hope that John Larsen takes a little more control, however, seemed that John D. kind of ran the show after a bit. I like Larsen, however, in the improv and the unscripted version. When John gets into that rare form, he shines!

  12. James Hafen Reply

    Enjoyed this more than I thought I would. I hope you do it again. I hope that John Larsen takes a little more control, however, seemed that John D. kind of ran the show after a bit. I like Larsen, however, in the improv and the unscripted version. When John gets into that rare form, he shines!

  13. JackUK Reply

    Two really great episodes guys. I listen to both ME and MS and appreciate the different approaches the two John’s take. The multi-part MS episodes let John D develop the subjects discussed and are great to listen to while travelling but John L’s are punchier and funnier. I think both styles have their place. I’d love to hear a podcast on the Rigdon/Spalding theory too. When is someone going to interview a CoC member or leader?

  14. JackUK Reply

    Two really great episodes guys. I listen to both ME and MS and appreciate the different approaches the two John’s take. The multi-part MS episodes let John D develop the subjects discussed and are great to listen to while travelling but John L’s are punchier and funnier. I think both styles have their place. I’d love to hear a podcast on the Rigdon/Spalding theory too. When is someone going to interview a CoC member or leader?

  15. Carson N Reply

    Great episode, guys. I listen to both podcasts and enjoy them. The length of the Mormon Stories podcasts doesn’t bother me because I use various podcasts to pass the time when I’m commuting, walking, making breakfast, etc. I hope both Mormon Expressions and Mormon Stories live a long life. Thank you John and John and the rest of the Mormon Expressions crew.

    • Richard Reply

      I agree with you Carson. It might take me awhile to get through one of the Mormon Stories podcast because of the length but I love listening to all of it. Maybe that is because I listen to a lot of audio books that are much much longer.

  16. Carson N Reply

    Great episode, guys. I listen to both podcasts and enjoy them. The length of the Mormon Stories podcasts doesn’t bother me because I use various podcasts to pass the time when I’m commuting, walking, making breakfast, etc. I hope both Mormon Expressions and Mormon Stories live a long life. Thank you John and John and the rest of the Mormon Expressions crew.

    • Richard Reply

      I agree with you Carson. It might take me awhile to get through one of the Mormon Stories podcast because of the length but I love listening to all of it. Maybe that is because I listen to a lot of audio books that are much much longer.

  17. Patrick Reply

    I joked with John Dehlin at the Mormon Expression conference that Mormon Stories was my gateway podcast to the hardstuff, Mormon Expression. I consider myself a total groupie for both. Heck, I’d even be their roadie if they wanted me to carry their suitcases and set up their microphones. I might get a “John and John forever” tattoo…but that might be too Prop 8.

    I had listened to pretty much all the old Mormon Stories/Mormon Matters podcasts right about the time that John Dehlin started up Mormon Stories again. I had read/heard that he had stopped producing the podcast because of the effect it was having on his listeners testimonies. Let me say for the record that, John, you couldn’t have been a fairer or more balanced host. I thought that you did (and do) a phenomenal job allowing your guests to tell their story and their own testimony. I was able to examine my faith more throughly through your interviews than I had ever done in thirty years of Sunday School. Thank you.

    Final end of story is that while I can’t muster up the Cultural brand of mormon identity of John Larson, I understand my mormonism way more than I ever did while active in the church.

    And since this is the comments section for Mormon Expression, let me give a shout out to the coolest bunch of cats who come back every week to entertain the unwashed masses. You guys all do a great job of keeping it real. Don’t let the fame and fortune go to your heads. 🙂

  18. Patrick Reply

    I joked with John Dehlin at the Mormon Expression conference that Mormon Stories was my gateway podcast to the hardstuff, Mormon Expression. I consider myself a total groupie for both. Heck, I’d even be their roadie if they wanted me to carry their suitcases and set up their microphones. I might get a “John and John forever” tattoo…but that might be too Prop 8.

    I had listened to pretty much all the old Mormon Stories/Mormon Matters podcasts right about the time that John Dehlin started up Mormon Stories again. I had read/heard that he had stopped producing the podcast because of the effect it was having on his listeners testimonies. Let me say for the record that, John, you couldn’t have been a fairer or more balanced host. I thought that you did (and do) a phenomenal job allowing your guests to tell their story and their own testimony. I was able to examine my faith more throughly through your interviews than I had ever done in thirty years of Sunday School. Thank you.

    Final end of story is that while I can’t muster up the Cultural brand of mormon identity of John Larson, I understand my mormonism way more than I ever did while active in the church.

    And since this is the comments section for Mormon Expression, let me give a shout out to the coolest bunch of cats who come back every week to entertain the unwashed masses. You guys all do a great job of keeping it real. Don’t let the fame and fortune go to your heads. 🙂

  19. OzPoof Reply

    Really good to hear JD admit to us that he finds it difficult to remain in the church given what he knows. I was starting to wonder what JDs story was.

    Mormonism is not a religion you can be half in, or treat like a Catholic who only goes for the rites of passage – weddings, baptisms and such. Mormonism won’t allow that. If you don’t believe it, you have to live a lie almost all the time, and that takes a lot of energy.

    That Joel guy just didn’t get it. I began to think that people like that were mental deficients, but he is only a reality deficient. It’s hard to be logical when you believe in irrational things.

    Thanks for this and all other podcasts at MS and ME.

  20. OzPoof Reply

    Really good to hear JD admit to us that he finds it difficult to remain in the church given what he knows. I was starting to wonder what JDs story was.

    Mormonism is not a religion you can be half in, or treat like a Catholic who only goes for the rites of passage – weddings, baptisms and such. Mormonism won’t allow that. If you don’t believe it, you have to live a lie almost all the time, and that takes a lot of energy.

    That Joel guy just didn’t get it. I began to think that people like that were mental deficients, but he is only a reality deficient. It’s hard to be logical when you believe in irrational things.

    Thanks for this and all other podcasts at MS and ME.

  21. Mike Tannehill Reply

    These two episodes were very interesting to listen to. Both John opened up and gave us some personal insight into how they think and perceive the church and the gospel.

    A few of the panelists have stated their distaste for Dehlin which I really never understood. I have enjoyed the episodes I have listened to in the past and will listen to alot more. His guests really open up to him and share some great insights into how they perceive things.

    That being said I had a really hard time one Dehlin started opening up with his views. After awhile I started to expect him at any moment to tell us why the color yellow makes him sad. Whats the deal ? Are you on that estrogen diet or something?

    The worst part was how he expressed his desire to see a new branch of the church opened up! One that has no priesthood, no restoration teachings, no laws.. everyone just sits around a fire and sings kumbiyah and hugs… I’m glad Larsen was there to tell him how deranged this was every time it was brought up.

    Everyone knows that Larsen and I disagree on many many things, but at least his arguements have some form of reasoning behind them.

    • Mr. IT Reply

      YOU WROTE
      “After awhile I started to expect him at any moment to tell us why the color yellow makes him sad. Whats the deal ? Are you on that estrogen diet or something?

      Everyone knows that Larsen and I disagree on many many things, but at least his arguements have some form of reasoning behind them.”

      That was a bit harsh Mike dude – on both counts.

      Can we assume that Mr. Dehlin has pushed a button or two to cause you to take off the gloves?

      YOU WROTE
      “One that has no priesthood, no restoration teachings, no laws.. everyone just sits around a fire and sings kumbiyah and hugs”

      MY RESPONSE
      FYI, it already exists: The Unitarian Universalist Church (see http://www.uua.org/) And many are of the opinion that this is the general direction that that Community of Christ is heading in.

      Some think that they’re already there.
      (I’m not one of them BTW)

  22. Mike Tannehill Reply

    These two episodes were very interesting to listen to. Both John opened up and gave us some personal insight into how they think and perceive the church and the gospel.

    A few of the panelists have stated their distaste for Dehlin which I really never understood. I have enjoyed the episodes I have listened to in the past and will listen to alot more. His guests really open up to him and share some great insights into how they perceive things.

    That being said I had a really hard time one Dehlin started opening up with his views. After awhile I started to expect him at any moment to tell us why the color yellow makes him sad. Whats the deal ? Are you on that estrogen diet or something?

    The worst part was how he expressed his desire to see a new branch of the church opened up! One that has no priesthood, no restoration teachings, no laws.. everyone just sits around a fire and sings kumbiyah and hugs… I’m glad Larsen was there to tell him how deranged this was every time it was brought up.

    Everyone knows that Larsen and I disagree on many many things, but at least his arguements have some form of reasoning behind them.

    • Mr. IT Reply

      YOU WROTE
      “After awhile I started to expect him at any moment to tell us why the color yellow makes him sad. Whats the deal ? Are you on that estrogen diet or something?

      Everyone knows that Larsen and I disagree on many many things, but at least his arguements have some form of reasoning behind them.”

      That was a bit harsh Mike dude – on both counts.

      Can we assume that Mr. Dehlin has pushed a button or two to cause you to take off the gloves?

      YOU WROTE
      “One that has no priesthood, no restoration teachings, no laws.. everyone just sits around a fire and sings kumbiyah and hugs”

      MY RESPONSE
      FYI, it already exists: The Unitarian Universalist Church (see http://www.uua.org/) And many are of the opinion that this is the general direction that that Community of Christ is heading in.

      Some think that they’re already there.
      (I’m not one of them BTW)

  23. Stevo Reply

    So, I listened to this just today and got to here by being a casual listener of Dehlin. I like to consider myself TBM with liberal views and a pragmatic approach. Anyways, a couple of things came up that, no doubt because I’m only a casual listener, I didn’t get or need more info to make sense of.
    First off, why Marlin Jensen as the person to interview if a church official would agree? There was no real justification given for this choice.
    Secondly, what is the doctrine that Larson said he didn’t know how Joseph got so much into the book of mormon? Never heard of it before. If either John’s are still checking comments or any other commenter knows the answers, I’ll thank you in advance. Peace.

  24. Stevo Reply

    So, I listened to this just today and got to here by being a casual listener of Dehlin. I like to consider myself TBM with liberal views and a pragmatic approach. Anyways, a couple of things came up that, no doubt because I’m only a casual listener, I didn’t get or need more info to make sense of.
    First off, why Marlin Jensen as the person to interview if a church official would agree? There was no real justification given for this choice.
    Secondly, what is the doctrine that Larson said he didn’t know how Joseph got so much into the book of mormon? Never heard of it before. If either John’s are still checking comments or any other commenter knows the answers, I’ll thank you in advance. Peace.

  25. Mike Tannehill Reply

    Mr. IT,
    “Can we assume that Mr. Dehlin has pushed a button or two to cause you to take off the gloves?”

    Prior to listening to this podcast I had no beef whatsoever with Mr. Dehlin.

  26. Mike Tannehill Reply

    Mr. IT,
    “Can we assume that Mr. Dehlin has pushed a button or two to cause you to take off the gloves?”

    Prior to listening to this podcast I had no beef whatsoever with Mr. Dehlin.

  27. John Hamer Reply

    Great podcast, guys, as always for both of you. At some point I’d be fine to get together on a panel to talk about the Spaulding Theory.

    I do want to say that the LDS Church is specifically doing things to contribute to gay suicide. Specifically it is teaching young gay Mormons that their identity is not legitimate, that their orientation does not exist, and that their existence is at odds with God. All three of these things are totally false, but they contribute substantially to suicide among gay Mormons. In my own experience, I was part of the BYU gay community for about a year and in that short time and in that tiny community, two gay Mormon friends attempted suicide.

    On a completely different note, on temples — if you want to meditate or be alone with your own thoughts in the Kirtland Temple or the Independence Temple, you are very welcome. I’m planning on being in Kirtland on Saturday, October 2. We’re tentatively planning on having a Mormon-Expressions or “New Order Mormon”-style insiders tour of the Temple and its grounds at 4 pm. (We’re hoping to record a Mormon Expressions episode earlier that day.) Any of your listeners who would like to attend are welcome.

  28. John Hamer Reply

    Great podcast, guys, as always for both of you. At some point I’d be fine to get together on a panel to talk about the Spaulding Theory.

    I do want to say that the LDS Church is specifically doing things to contribute to gay suicide. Specifically it is teaching young gay Mormons that their identity is not legitimate, that their orientation does not exist, and that their existence is at odds with God. All three of these things are totally false, but they contribute substantially to suicide among gay Mormons. In my own experience, I was part of the BYU gay community for about a year and in that short time and in that tiny community, two gay Mormon friends attempted suicide.

    On a completely different note, on temples — if you want to meditate or be alone with your own thoughts in the Kirtland Temple or the Independence Temple, you are very welcome. I’m planning on being in Kirtland on Saturday, October 2. We’re tentatively planning on having a Mormon-Expressions or “New Order Mormon”-style insiders tour of the Temple and its grounds at 4 pm. (We’re hoping to record a Mormon Expressions episode earlier that day.) Any of your listeners who would like to attend are welcome.

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