Jan 3, 2012

Answers

I have attended something like 450 testimony meetings in my life and four times as many sacrament meetings, not to mention countless hours of sunday school, primary, Relief Society, seminary, Institute, a mission, and home and visiting teachers. In all those hours one message loomed –

WE HAVE THE ANSWERS! ! ! ! We HAVE the answers. We have the ANSWERS. We have THE answers.

WE have THE answers!!!

But what answers, exactly, does the church have? Consider, for instance, the classic: How do I get to the Celestial Kingdom?

At first blush it may seem that the church is all about answering this question. There are countless sermons and books and scriptures that claim to answer this question. But stop any Mormon on the street and ask them directly — “Are you going to the Celestial Kingdom when you die?” — and wait for the qualifiers to begin.

I hope so . . .

If I stay faithful . . .

The final decision is in the Lord’s hands . . .

There is no guarantee. There is, in fact, no clear instruction. What does it take to get in? If you are baptized are you in? Do you have to be endowed? Sealed in the temple? Receive the 2nd anointing? Do you have to have a temple recommend? What if you mess up the day you die but you would have repented? Does that count? Or what if you did everything technically right but you were a total jerk inside?

Aiming for the Celestial Kingdom is, in the end, impossible, because whenever you think you have it in your sights the target is moved back a few steps — You can always be better, always be more faithful, more believing and you are always in danger of failing.

Furthermore, assuming you do get in what does that mean? Describe for me what life in the Celestial Kingdom is like in detail. (And remember to consider what we will look like and the roll of servants there, and race, and women, and infants . . .) Now go ask a general authority if you are right. If that GA doesn’t tell you not to worry about those things . . . well, I hope you see what I am saying.

So, let us leave the future to the future and worry about the here and now. One question I frequently ask myself is whether I am behaving in a moral way. Doesn’t the church answer that question? (Certainly my parents, and others who are concerned about the effect that leaving the church will have upon me and my children, seem to think the church has the only answer to that question.) Who is a moral person in the church? Is it the obedient person? But obedient to what? The commandments, right? But which ones? Are you truly immoral if you have two earrings in each ear? Or drink coffee? What if you kill someone? But then, what if God told you to kill someone? What if no-one else heard God tell you?

It isn’t that I expect there to be answers. I’ve taken enough philosophy classes to know that very few things in this life have absolute answers and most of the things that do have answers only have answers in very controlled circumstances. BUT the church absolutely claims to have answers, answers to the tough philosophical questions. They may have an answer for whether or not you should drink coffee or who should be allowed to get married, but they do not really have answers for who we are, where we came from or where we are going, let alone the answers.

By Tierza Uncategorized 13 Comments

Anonymous

The real power to control behavior comes as an extension of the doctrine of eternal progression and the focus on this life as a test of faith – the time to prepare to meet God! Wow! What a heavy load to bear! “Have I done enough? I mean, really done enough? I have been trying hard to do what I am suppose to do, but…I guess I can try a little harder!” Many of us are introspective enough to struggle with the question of how much is enough while the more narcissistic among us might think “I’m good!” One sure fire way to know is whether or not we are able to get a temple recommend, right? No, not really. I know many temple recommend holders that still struggle with this question. Its probably due to the nature of many of the temple recommend questions such as “Do you feel worthy in every way to enter the House of the Lord?” Of course, we all hedge on this question and tell the bishop that we are trying but were not perfect – yet. Well, at least there is tithing – thank goodness for tithing! Finally, something that we can be perfect in.
http://www.cautherscounseling.com Wes Cauthers

Great blog, Tierza.
Alan Andersen

Actually, there is an answer about who goes to the Celestial Kingdom. It is found in Doctrine & Covenants 132:26, but this answer is so embarrassing to Mitt Romney and other modern LDS that its as if it doesn’t exist. Essentially, the answer therein stated is that if one enters into a polygamous marriage and does not shed innocent blood or deny the Holy Ghost, he/she will go to the Celestial Kingdom. Thus the concern in the murderous Mountain Meadows Massacre about whether the LDS people’s slitting the throats of children under age 8 would be shedding innocent blood. It is all terrible to contemplate.
Anonymous

Don’t you work a little harder for the Lord if you have a touch of sin, a bit of guilt, as you work out your salvation…….and then Jesus does the rest for you. If members are allowed to think they have it made…..they may become slackers, or heaven forbid, cocky.
Anonymous

First off, the LDS Church doesn’t have all the answers. A few months ago I asked my bishop if God really does know every single little thing that’s ever going to happen in the future. First he told me that God did, God did know every single little thing. But a couple of months later he said that we simply don’t know whether God has that much omniscience or not.

Now on to the questions that you asked, Tierza. “Are you going to the Celestial Kingdom when you die?” No! Nobody in today’s world goes to the Celestial Kingdom when s/he dies. People typically only go to the Celestial Kingdom when they resurrect, and that could be a long time after they die.

“If you are baptized are you in?” Not automatically. If you’re baptized and keep repenting every time you sin, then yes, you’re in.

“Do you have to be endowed? Sealed in the temple?” No and no. Neither being endowed nor sealed are required for entrance into the Celestial Kingdom. They are required for entrance into the higher degrees of the Celestial Kingdom, but that’s another matter. “Do you have to have a temple recommend?” Also no.

“What if you mess up the day you die but you would have repented?” Death isn’t that big a decider for Latter-day Saints. It does no good to postpone one’s repentance until after one dies, because as the Book of Mormon says the same spirit we have in this life we’ll have in the next life, but if you truly would have repented had you not died, then you’ll clearly be able to repent after you’ve died.

“Or what if you did everything technically right but you were a total jerk inside?” Then, no, you won’t make it to the Celestial Kingdom. God knows what kind of a person you are on the inside.

Gordon Hinckley was very clear about how someone goes about entering into the Celestial Kingdom. One just concentrates on one’s failings one by one, whittles away at them, takes however long it takes to overcome each one, and if that one keeps doing that long enough, s/he will eventually make it into the Celestial Kingdom.

Tierza, these are answers to your questions. They are not answers to all your questions; you asked quite a few. But they are answers. I will reiterate what I said; the LDS Church certainly doesn’t have all the answers to all the questions anybody can ask. But it does certainly have answers to the most important questions people typically ask.

Kevin Sim

http://www.facebook.com/tierza.askren Tierza Rose Askren

Kevin

I should have made myself clearer in my post. The church gives answers. Yes. But when those answers bump up against the complexity of real life they fall short. Let me give you an example.

I have a friend who is ‘addicted’ to porn. (I put quotes because addicted seems far too negative a word to me for this friend’s problem, but it is how he defines it, so I will too.) This friend is a faithful member of the church. He attends every Sunday. Fulfills his callings. He is genuinely sorry for looking at porn and he is totally honest with his church leaders about his porn use. He has spent years and thousands of dollars in therapy trying to stop looking at porn. He has gone to every bishop or branch president he has had and sought their guidance.

This friend has lived in 6 different congregations since I have known him. He has had at least that many bishops or branch presidents (I don’t actually know since there could have been changes within those congregations). Not one of them has given him the same advice, requirements, expectations or guidance. Some have encouraged him to attend the temple. Some have told him he is completely unworthy to attend. Some have disfellowshipped him, others give him callings. He has even been called before a church court — in which they chose to take no formal action against him. In at least ten years of trying to repent he has received no clear guidance as to the severity of his sin or the path to salvation from it.

The church’s answer, and there is one, is, “Stop looking at porn.” Simple.

But the “how?” is not clear. The “or what?” is not clear.

It is not clear, to him or to his bishops, whether or not he is even worthy in this life and it is certainly not clear what affect this problem will have in the world to come. If he is unworthy to attend the temple here will he be unworthy to enter the Celestial Kingdom there? Above all none of the people involved seem to have any idea of how to make him stop looking.

It is comforting to think that there are answers. But, “we don’t know” or “the Lord will take care of that” or “have faith” are NOT answers. They are palliatives meant to sooth us into the comfortable fiction that we know something when we don’t.

Anonymous

Tierza, you said, “The church gives answers. Yes. But when those answers bump up against the complexity of real life they fall short.” So what was the point of all those questions you listed in your original article (several of which I did answer)?

And the example you gave was just one example. If your friend had been addicted to alcohol, there might have been more answers available to the “how?” question than there were in this particular case regarding pornography. That being the case, just give the church time. As I said in my comments, my own experience has led me to the conclusion that the church doesn’t have the answers to every question someone might ask. As time goes by the church learns more and more.

Kevin Sim

Anonymous

Kevin, I like the observation of, “just give the church time.” I have seen this happen in my life and read about it in church history. With enough outside pressure the church does come around and finds answers society and good men and women have already discovered. It is easy to see how this has happened with polygamy and eventually with womens rights not that long ago. It took awhile for the inspiration to come for blacks. Hopefully science will be able to prove that people really can be born gay and then, with time, the church will receive another answer. The real answer is that they do not have answers.

michael spencer

You are absolutely right. The Church, and the Lord don’t give a simple, comprehensive, “A+B=C” type formula for exaltation. And some of the details to deal with everyday problems aren’t explained anywhere. I think that the greatest asset a Latter-day Saint has is the idea that we can receive personal revelation, guidance, and strength from the Spirit. I can appreciate your friends struggle with pornography. We all have our demons, (or thorns in the flesh if you prefer…). But the important thing, I think, is what you said about your friend, that he is genuinely sorry and trying to overcome his addiction. It is very easy as LDS to get caught up in the “Be ye perfect” part of the gospel and forget the fact that nobody is, that the idea is to keep repenting and keep trying. Nobody says that you will one day become miraculously perfect and coast to the end. No, you ENDURE to the end. Keep pushing on. As to how you “get to the Celestial Kingdom,” I like to remember D&C 29:7. ”…the elect hear my voice and harden not their hearts.” That’s pretty much it. Listen to the Spirit, keep trying, and don’t give up. Everything else, all the do’s and don’ts, doctrines, and programs, are designed to help us do that. Its a long and hard road. But everything I have read in the scriptures and heard at GenConf suggest that its the fact that you are pressing forward that counts.

Anonymous

michael, I appreciate what you’re saying, for that characterized my beliefs for many years. But to me, the whole “endure to the end” mantra is a rather convenient way to dismiss the legitimate questions Tierza asks. What’s the difference between saying that and saying “Just shut up and do your job,” except that the former sounds more polite? To me, it belongs to the “milk before meat,” ” all things will be revealed” and other promissory notes and platitudes that I’ve come to the conclusion are never going to be redeemed.

I agree that the GA’s want us to keep on plugging along and contributing to the church–that’s in their own best interest. (Also, fwiw, I think they believe it’s good for us too.) For certain people, it probably is. Some personalities do well with someone there to kick their asses from time to time, keeping them from becoming complacent. There are many, many people who do not. For me, it was absolutely toxic.
Anonymous

What does it take to hear? You make it sound so simple. When I listen, I cannot isolate the actual divine voice of God. I try, but when I analyze what other influences might be affecting my understanding of my spiritual experiences, I have filtered them through the mormon culture, mormon doctrine, and mormon entrenchment. How can I actually know that I am hearing God independent of all other influences?

When do you have to hear? I assumed that I heard all my life. Now, I fear that what I heard was mormonism. What I measured my experience with was mormonism.

To endure means to make durable. What do I need to make durable? My ability to listen and have a soft heart. I struggle to control my ability to listen. I do not know how to listen.

How do I have a soft heart? My heart is open to God, if God will reciprocate. How long should one fantasize about reciprocation before moving on with life, and finding a love that does reciprocate?

Anonymous

There is a saying in the church: If the Book of Mormon is true, then Joseph Smith is a prophet; If Joseph is a prophet, then the church is true; if the church is true, then you can only get to God through it. Therefore, read the BoM, gain a testimony, and you have all the answers.

It appears that members claim answers, but it is more conviction that they actually have. If you ask questions, they often provide conviction that the church is right. Sometimes, I phrase my lose of conviction that I have lost the answers. When it boils down to it, they do have conviction. And that conviction is the only answer they need.
Mark Smith

It all comes down to you. Only you can answer these existential question for yourself. Even if there is a God who does have answers, who is to say that that God isn’t an immoral jerk. So the most important answer to any of these questions is whatever you think. It doesn’t hurt to ask around but in the end the only answers that matter are what you decide. If the church is entirely true then the concept of the veil and the plan of salvation would imply that having all this true knowledge of the true church and all the answers is a sort of cheating on the test. A few weeks ago in priesthood we were discussing honesty and someone said something along the lines of, “Integrity is what we do when no one is watching” to which I responded, ” So all you folks who claim knowledge of an all knowing Heavenly Father, basically don’t have a chance of being integrous.” Well this did cause a bit of an uproar, but I still stand by that comment. If there is a God or isn’t a God or what the proper answers to any of the questions is, is really irrelevant next to what you feel is right and how you choose to behave based on your own personal freely arrived at mores. Be good for goodness sake, being good for Santa or even for God is never as rewarding as being good for oneself. Be good for today and let the morrow take care of itself.

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