Nov 30, 2011

4: A Farewell from Tom

Heather talks with Tom Perry about Mormonism and the Mormon Expression podcast.

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

By Heather C. Podcast 67 Comments

http://www.richardharris.no Richard of Norway

Farewell?! Say it isn’t so!
http://www.richardharris.no Richard of Norway

So many great quotes in this one! Go Tom!

“Tom one, veil nothing!”

“You hear that ladies? The men get to lead you through!”

“I don’t want God’s wrath on me, man!”

I was Executive Secretary as well bro. Nice.
http://www.richardharris.no Richard of Norway

Tom, what was your calling after High Counsel? (What was your calling when you went through the stuff with your Bishop?) When did the event occur with your Bishop and your resignation letter (which you ended up not sending in)?

Sorry for so many posts but Tom is one of my favorite dudes and I can’t help myself.

Tom Perry

Thanks Richard. I count you as a good friend. As always.

I was called as the high priest secretary when I returned to church. That was the low grade calling I talking about.

Then event with my bishop and the letter happened while I was still on the high council. I was meeting with my SP in the middle of all that as well.

Amy

that was lovely….i miss Tom.

Tom Perry

Thanks Amy.

Rich McCue

Sigh…..

Tom Perry

Anonymous

I loved this. Thanks Tom and Heather! Tom, I can’t imagine how much guts it must have taken for you to bear that “untestimony” at girls camp. I’m sure it was helpful for others to hear.
Elder Vader

Tom — What do you mean you don’t fit in with Mormon Expression? What does that even mean man? I’m sure I’m not the only one who feels this way, but that was sad to hear. Not that you’re leaving the podcast, I mean, I’m happy that you’re going whatever direction you want to take. It just surprised me to hear you say that you didn’t fit in. I don’t know how to say it.

Tom Perry

There were lots of factors involved in my decision. Saying that I didn’t fit in was the briefest explanation I could come up with on the spot.

http://www.facebook.com/fred.w.anson Fred W. Anson

Farewell? I’m hoping that’s a typo.
Bruce MacArthur

Thanks for all you did on the podcast. You will be sorely missed.

Tom Perry

Thanks Bruce. I really appreciate it.

Elder Vader

It’s funny how there are different angles that bother people in LDS history. Mountain meadows was never really one of those hot button things for me. Anytime I heard about it growing up it was framed as ‘They deserved it.’ When I read ‘Under The Banner of Heaven’, that part made me sick, but it didn’t derail me.

Tom Perry

In my time being involved with disaffected mormons, I too think it is fascinating to see which topics or areas were “hot buttons” for people. Everybody seems to take things very differently. Me especially.

http://twitter.com/jackrodwell83 Jack Rodwell

sad podcast to here. i can relate . my mom was a devout Jehovah witness and took my sister and i to the kingdom hall four days a week. i guess my mom and dad who have been married 30 years had a deal worked out . he was a capt. in the marines and would stay home and watch star trek and drink one tall boy while we were at the kingdom hall. saying church is a no no. but thats neither here nor there . mormons and Jehovah witness are arch rivals and think each others branch are the devil. i grew up in sd and my mom would turn away whenever she saw the huge temple. she said Satan resided there .

my dad is now a meteorologist. he never believed but went on one day only. Passover . he never put his family in jeopardy over superficial matters.
let the wife and kids believe whatever they want. its not the worst thing in world . its not worth a happy life which is your one and only

i am now a successful agnostic who has no idea what happens when you die but going to the kingdom hall taught me morals to be a good person and i wouldnt trade it for anything in the world. what else would i have been doing , playing video games?

all the best. cheers mate

Tom Perry

Thanks Jack. Ya know playing video games doesn’t sound all that bad.

http://profiles.google.com/lifelongguy james hafen

Well, Tom you were always the voice on ME that I seemed to relate too the most. You felt like the guy I could imagine sitting in the pew in front of me – and I think you and I have had similar paths and similar experiences.

For what it’s worth, I think your voice on the podcast is needed. I know you need to do what you need for your family and ENTIRELY respect that but will hope to hear your name announced in the future when I queue up the latest and greatest from ME.

Good luck and mucho respect, friend.

Tom Perry

James,

I really appreciate the kind words. As you said, you and I have tread very similar paths. I’m very honored to call you a friend.

Keep in touch bro.

Kris Fielding

*sigh* Sad to see you go Tom. You always brought a non-judgmental attitude and I thought you fit perfectly. And dude, you’re not a hypocrite, either. IMO, it’s admirable to do what’s best for your relationship by going to church but still do it with integrity.

Tom Perry

Thanks Kris. I really appreciate the fact that you don’t think I’m a hypocrite. As I said in the interview, I’ve been called that many times, but the toughest part is honestly feeling like one. I can usually shake what people say about me, but to feel like one deep down inside is tough.

Anonymous

Calling you a hypocrite is like calling a prisoner a squatter. Anyone who calls you a hypocrite is either ignorant of what’s going on, insecure, or intellectually immature.

One bone I want to pick with you is that when Heather asked you if you are an atheist now, your reaction was something like mine would be if someone asked me “are you sexually attracted to young boys?” :-)

If this truly is farewell, and I hope it’s not, I’m glad I was able to do one podcast with you and argue about the orcs.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1206256166 Steve Kimball

He was just being honest, go read the definition of a hypocrite. I thought it was awesome he just said it. Sad, true, but very honest. I was one for a long time I never could have just said it.

FullyWashable

Wow, go read the definition for being a dick.
I think we all know that hypocrites are people who profess one moral belief, and act in a different way. However people believe more than one single moral principle, and they have to prioritize to get the greatest moral benefit in cases where there is conflict. Tom clearly said he believes the most important priority in his life is maintaining and supporting his family. He’s acting in total harmony with that belief, and choosing a very hard path to do it. He has other beliefs, like the church being a destructive institution, that are subsumed by that priority. Acting in accord with the latter–ie, attempting to stop his family from attending church–would violate the moral that is more important to him. It would probably also violate other ones, like treating your spouse with respect. I’ve had trouble putting my family before my skepticism, myself, because
it’s hard to sit quiet while other people are “wrong,” but putting
priorities in that order does not make one a hypocrite by any stretch.
I’m an atheist and a never-Mormon with nothing but respect for Tom. If Tom had said that the most important thing in life is self-righteous insistence on speaking up whenever you think someone else is wrong, well then yeah, he’d be a hypocrite for not being excommunicated by now. But that doesn’t seem to be part of his philosophy.
I think it’s comments like this that drive folks away from this community. Maybe you should reconsider what is more important to you: supporting folks who are struggling with the church, or winning semantic arguments at the cost of the feelings of others?

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1206256166 Steve Kimball

I think the real author is likely Tom. Love you Tom, the never believing atheist part is a crack up Tom. Remember you said you were a hypocrite, I just gave you kudos for admitting what few of us hypocrites can, I guess that makes me a dick. A dick that needs to go read the definition of dick. Cool.

Anonymous

Steve, you didn’t need to start with such a condescending line. I actually think I get what you’re saying and I don’t think you meant it in a harsh way but basically, everything FullyWashable said about morality and the inherent grayness of coming to moral decisions in many instances, Tom’s plight as the perfect example. It’s not as black and white as you imply with this post.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1206256166 Steve Kimball

I do think there is a right and a wrong and when we say its grey we all get into trouble. Sorry but that is how I think.

Tom Perry

Rannnndy. One of my all time favorite atheists.

The word atheist stirs up a lot of negative emotions in the general public. More than most like to admit. So yeah, it did feel like Heather was asking me if I was attracted to young boys.

KC

Tom,
always valued your perspective and b.t.w. did enjoy your interview with gene sessions. Also just finished The Believing Brain by Schermer and it helped to find some peace with my feelings and experiences in the past. good luck

Tom Perry

Thanks KC. That truly means a lot. Thanks.
mono

Tom, ok, so I posted a “really sorry to see you leave note” in error on the comments on Holly Welkers show. BTW she has a wonderful podcast.

I am almost finished with The Believing Brain, really has helped me to come to grips with several issues and was able to let them go. Especially the chapter on politics and why they believe the way they do.

Understanding the Meyers-Briggs Personality Type Indicator and Cognitive Dissonance really helped also.

Tom Perry

Thanks for the comment. You are Brian’s (from NC) Mom?? No kidding? I really need to reconnect with him. It’s been a long time. Great guy!

There are so many books that have helped me along my journey. Thanks for your thoughts.

Garen “George”

This was a tough one to listen to as the journey that Tom and I took was so matched and in some ways, done together. I know that meeting Tom face to face at Iceburg Burgers in Orem was a key event in the journey. It was the first time I’d ever met another person who was in literal agony based on something that we had given our hearts and souls to, the church.
Tom has been a key resource to me over the past few years as so many of our struggles are over similar areas and our goals were very similar for getting involved in ME and helping to get it started. Personally, I had too many things going on in my life at the time that all hit at the same time. I found myself using people like Tom to model potential behaviors as I transitioned in my faith/church life.
I’m glad that Tom is finding peace and activities to keep him busy and “active”. His love for his wife and family drives much of his story and it comes across very strong in the narrative.
Lovin Tom and proud to be a friend.

Tom Perry

We did cross paths early on in my journey. I will always be thankful for that. You provided me a listening ear in many difficult times for me. I will always appreciate that.

You are a good friend. Back at ya bro.

http://argeiphontes.blogspot.com/ Hermes

Maybe the shift in tone that ME frets about is just the absence of Tom and Nyal. Tom always seemed kind of positive to me, trying to paint church leaders in the best light (without ignoring problems). Nyal was resoundingly negative (the anti-Tom). Between them, John Larsen managed to create a middle space, challenging each without allowing himself to be vociferously pro- or anti-church. But that balance is gone now, and ME strives to create another one (with John as the new, more nuanced Nyal?).

I really like Tom, and I wish him well whatever he does. Thanks for sharing your life with us Internet folk, Tom. Happy trails!

Tom Perry

Thanks Hermes. I tried to be positive as often as I could. It is no easy job, that’s for sure.

Oz

Tom, you’re the only one I felt could talk church AND sports…the perfect combo!!!! You’ll be missed Tom. Thank you, Thank you for opening up about your journey. Good luck to you man!!!

Tom Perry

Thanks Oz. I’ve always appreciated your comments and feedback.
Hopefully our paths will cross someday.

Alan

Wow, Tom, this is so much like me. I was an executive secretary, I had the same MMM reaction you did, and my wife and I had a very similar interchange about the temple. I’m sorry you won’t be on ME, enjoyed the times you were on. Best of luck in your future.

Tom Perry

No kidding?? An exe secretary too? Man. I’m sorry you had to go through all that as well. My heart goes out to you. Thanks for the kind words.

We will have to connect in the future.

Nancy

Bittersweet…..I hear you and I feel for you…..Thanks for sharing….you’ll be missed.

Tom Perry

Thanks Nancy. I appreciate it.

Anonymous

Tom your story is legitimate and needs to be heard. For most people it isn’t practical or realistic to simply walk away from the church as if it didn’t exist, and I respect the path that you’ve taken. I’d love to hear from you again.

Tom Perry

Thanks. I wouldn’t recommend the path that I’ve taken on anyone. It is not easy or fun, but there are more important things at stake than my discomfort. I appreciate your comment.

Buffalog

Hey Tom, you’ll be missed. Your fights with Glenn were funny, and it was nice to have your “normal dude” perspective on things.

http://www.facebook.com/fred.w.anson Fred W. Anson

Oh brother!
[exasperated sigh!]

(hey someone, had to say it for old times sake!)
Tom Perry

Thanks Buff-dude. Glenn is an easy target to pick on. He and I are still friends, so I’m still planning on having some “fights” with him in the future, somewhere.

http://www.cautherscounseling.com Wes Cauthers

Another great interview, Heather. I really enjoyed hearing more of your story, Tom. Best wishes on your journey.

Tom Perry

Thanks Wes. I have really appreciated your thoughts and feedback on many of my past episodes. You are a good guy. Thanks for everything.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1206256166 Steve Kimball

Super nice job Tom. I was one of the critics of a few things you said back in the day. I must admit regardless of the past you sound like a good guy that would be welcome at my campfire. I wanted to say that as an investigator for 21 years I find it difficult to listen to people laboring and straining to compliment the perpetrator. In a family with abuse you will find the same thing happening as you find with an LDS member who is leaving. The victim of a very life altering lie is then faced with loved one’s and friends, and ward who abandon them to some extent and attack them for merely saying they were abused. They defend the abuser, communication and shunning rule the day until the abused finally learns the only means of survival is to surrender and play along or pretend. It is a sad thing. Even mother’s defend their abusive husband usually its about a meal ticket and survival–but who needs a Mom like that, right. To Tom I would just say you and everyone has a right to be angry your world was turned upside down. You have the right to speak your mind always. There is life outside of the abusive family. There is a future far better for you Tom then sitting biting your tongue sick in Church to please others. There are people who will love you for who you are, that is true love. I know, I did it for years and have discovered it. A better life awaits you Tom with or without those supporting your abuser. And when I say this I am speaking to all who are in your shoes and all who have been there or might find themselves in the same loveless situation and know or will know love if they let go of people who do not fully accept them. Best wishes Tom. God, if your there, bless the USA and force the LDS church to come clean….(smile).
Craig

Tom… very nice interview. One thing… I think you’ll be back.
Guest

Tom, is there a way to send you a private message? Your story sounds so similar to mine and I wouldn’t mind getting your opinion on something.

Tom Perry

Sure! Feel free to email me at: tom@mydiversion.com

James Leverich

Tom you mentioned an Interview with 10 historians on the Mountain Meadow Massacre.. do you have a reference for that? Is it on youtube?

Tom Perry

I don’t know if the news clip I watched is currently on youtube or not. The local news (I don’t even remember what station) were doing a report on the upcoming September Dawn movie and I remember it was a woman who was doing the report and all the historians were in a conference type room with her. If it is online somewhere and I find it, I’ll pass it along.

Justin Jensen

Tom,
Many thanks for sharing your story. I’ve always valued your contributions to the podcast.
All the best!
AmyMc

I love Tom Perry! I will really miss his voice on ME.

Anonon

Amen sistah!!! Mormon Expression will never be the same without him.

Polly Anna

My husband and I were going to do the old make a list of grievances with church history sited letter as are move to tell our families. Now after listening to this we are back to the drawing board. We need a new strategy now. : ( I appreciated the advice though. Anyway, I really enjoyed this podcast! I am going to miss Tom!
Mike N

I always enjoyed hearing your views, Tom, and I’ll miss hearing you in the future. I hope you return to the podcast scene one day.
Heather Crozier

Hey Tom,
Sorry so late in listening. I’ve really missed you on ME and seeing you other places. I’m glad you’re finding your groove with your family. Family should be your religion! So happy for you. Hope to see you soon!
Michael Johnson

Tom, hope you change your mind. You’re insightful, funny and center the other contributors when they get carried away. Take care mate.
Pingback: Main Street Plaza » Last Call for 2011 Brodies Nominations!!
Pingback: Main Street Plaza » Congratulations 2011 Brodie Winners!!!
Anonymous

I’m so sorry to hear that you won’t be commenting in Mormon Expressions anymore. I am relatively new to these podcasts and I must say the expressions podcast is good, but is just too broad in it’s conclusions. I like Voices because it isn’t someone making broad generalizations but people simply telling their story, owning their opinions and experiences as theirs. It’s obvious that I will need to go back through and search the expressions history for the podcasts which you contributed to. I think I may find the tone a bit different.

I could have left the church 15 years ago. But I stick it out. Maybe not forever, but for now. And it is more than comforting to know there are others like me who struggle to figure out their place when they don’t believe in the history, the myths, or institution, yet stay for other personal reasons. Thanks for sharing your story.
Pingback: Main Street Plaza » 2011 Brodies: Vote Here!!

4: A Farewell from Tom

Support Mormon Expression

Subscribe

Be a part of the podcast!

Recent Posts

Recent Comments

Pages