11: A Jam Session with the Rockwells

Two of my favoritest people in the whole wide world. Love them.

I loved the song too.

But I have to take issue with something that Heather said toward the end of the interview. If I remember correctly, she said that religious believers think that their moral beliefs come from their religion, while atheists think that their moral beliefs come from cognitive processes.

From what I have seen and read, most people’s moral beliefs are rooted in the group of thoughts and feelings that are typically called the conscience. In turn, the conscience appears to be conditioned by an intuitive or instinctive understanding of fairness and empathy; a lifetime of learned social responses; and ideas that are inculcated by family and society. So the atheists are generally correct when it comes to the psychological dimension of morality.

Where believers and atheists seem to differ is in the philosophical dimension of morality. Believers generally hold that their moral beliefs are ultimately grounded in their religious faith, i.e., that morality represents the will of God. Atheists usually hold that their moral beliefs are ultimately grounded in human intuition or evolutionary psychology.

For believers, the need to stay true to the perceived will of God can enable them to engage in acts of individual moral heroism that run counter to cultural norms, though this can also work the other way — for example, when an intended act of moral heroism creates death and suffering, as in a terrorist attack. Atheists seem less prone to these extremes. This appears to be partly due to the fact that atheists often view morality as being ultimately rooted in the culture or species, which means that morality is more of a group characteristic rather than an intensely individual and personal responsibility.

Great podcast all. I didn’t realize that Greg was ‘Greg the host’ from other podcasts til the audio started. A pleasant surprise for sure. Yer a funny man, Greg and your lovely wife is equally charming.

I envy you both— or at least the fact that for the most part you exited together. I have been in disaffection limbo since at least 2004 or so— and my wife is believing and still attends— as do my kids. I attend SM a couple times a year at most. We mostly manage an uneasy detente punctuated by episodes of friction over how to raise kids when we don’t agree on belief. Try not to be too jealous.

I related a lot to Greg’s comments— not only about issues with Mormonism but about also about the good things the larger world has to offer— music, art, literature. I was a teenager in Northern CA in the 80s and had the same experience with music and art. After my mission though I found myself feeling like I had to choose between so-called worldly things and friends— and being a good Mormon. Wish I knew then what I do now.

I also loved what Letti said about the whole beautiful world opening up once moving beyond the limited thinking that is Mormonism. I’ve felt that exact thing and have told my wife that Mormonism, despite what good it may have, is just too small to be limited to.

Thank you all. Rockwells, my best to you both and your family.

Greg, if you band ever plays gigs let me/others know. I’d love come out.

Greg, thanks for your description of having kids and how parents of small kids generally look unhappy. I often say that, and people get mad at me. But that’s what it looks like to me. I’ve never wanted kids, and have make the choice not to have them. People keep saying it will make me happy, but it seems like all the evidence is to the contrary. That’s not to say that having kids is a bad thing, but for a women like me who really doesn’t want them, I have major doubts that it will make me happy, because it is hard for women who do want kids. So if it’s hard for people who really want kids, why would it magically make me, a person who does not want kids, happy? So thanks for saying that.